Must Listen Advice from TV Writer and Middle Grade author Joshua Pruett

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Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen and I'm Lisa Schmid, and we're the co-hosts of Writers with Wrinkles.

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This is season three, episode 22.

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And today we are excited to welcome Joshua Pruitt to the show.

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Joshua is a New York Times and USA Today bestselling author and Emmy award winner, and is the only human being on earth to have written for both Mystery Science Theater 3000 and Doctor who.

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He is a writer on the upcoming return of Phineas and Ferb and the co-author of the last comics on Earth graphic novel series.

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His first solo middle-grade series, euro and the Argonauts, pitched as the Hitchhiker's Guide to Greek Mythology, a revisionist take on classical myths where the monsters become the heroes they were always meant to be recently sold to andrews mcmill kids and will hit bookstores and libraries in the summer of 2025.

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So welcome, joshua.

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We are super excited to have you here.

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You've been busy I'm thrilled to be here.

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Hi beth, hi lisa, thank you, yes, always busy, too busy I know, but you know the alternative is like sitting there staring at your inbox going why isn't anything happening?

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So what if there's an equilibrium that we reach for?

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What if there's that?

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What I don't know.

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Are you implying there's balance?

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I don't know what that is Fictional, mythological place called balance.

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Yeah, so huge congratulations upfront on hitting, hitting usa today thank you weekly bestseller for too many villains, which came out at the end of april, if I'm writing that right correct?

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Yes we're gonna talk about that in a minute, but first I want to hear all about the middle grade series that andrews and camille will be putting out next summer.

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So if you can tell us a little bit about that, that would be fabulous.

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Oh, I'm thrilled too.

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Thank you for asking.

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I am freaking out about this one.

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This is one I've actually been working on for some time and one of these situations where you write a book and then you go do other things and then you come back to that book and you strengthen it, and so this one has been kind of my baby this to that book and you strengthen it, and so this one has been kind of my baby.

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This one has been kind of my labor of love and it comes out of, you know, growing up with Ray Harryhausen special effects movies like Jason and the Argonauts and Clash of the Titans, and my parents were super into those and so exposed those to me when I was a young man and you know, and Mel Brooks movies, and so I kind of over time, realized that some of the choices that were made, the creative choices in these stories you know they did not quote unquote adhere to the original stories that the poets kind of set down.

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And in my research, just out of curiosity, I discovered that even the poets did some remixing and that you know it wasn't Perseus on Pegasus, it was Bellerophon.

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Bellerophon was a different character.

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It was not quite as popular as Perseus is and kind of.

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The more research I did, the more I realized that there was a lot of creative invention that was going on and kind of the myths as we understand them or as interpreted by Edith Hamilton or Bullfinch is they're all really different.

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And so it occurred to me that like there was an opportunity there, but also a thematic opportunity where you know what, if you have a Greek geek like me, a kid who loves heroes and is afraid of monsters, who finds himself in a position where he realizes that there is a whole lot more to the monsters than he thought and a whole lot less to the heroes that he admires, and, upon rewrite, discovered that I was actually writing a little bit of my own story.

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Very early in my career I started in production, in animation, and wanted to get into a creative career as a storyboard artist and then also realized that I wanted to do some writing and got a lot of pushback and there were a lot of obstacles that I had to overcome, a lot of people trying to dictate my story to me, and so by the time I finished writing here, I realized that's what it was about.

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It was about people taking their story back, these monsters taking their story back, and how important it is to write your own story.

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So I'm so excited to get this book into kids' hands.

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It's super funny, super warm, lots of big adventure and just insanely goofy, insanely goofy book.

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I love that.

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It sounds like it's hitting all of the marks for middle grade books.

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You can see the kids sitting in the corner giggling away reading the book.

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I also love that theme of you know refusing to go in the box.

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You're not gonna put me in this box and tell me what I am.

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I think that's a great theme, especially for those kids of that age who are trying to figure out who am I.

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Am I who you?

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say I am or am I who?

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I say I am.

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And it's as timeless, as kind of those mythological heroes and villains.

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It's like that's something that I think we all need to hear from time to time.

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So in your head, how many titles are going to be in this series?

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Are you just saying you know I'm launching the first one and then we'll see where we're at?

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Yeah, a great question.

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You know we I'm I'm booked for two, I'm contracted for two.

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The next one, you know, features the origin of the Olympics, in a crazy kind of upside down way, or capital games, I should say, and you know I've got stories for a lot more.

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You know, eventually the fun of it is remixing these stories so that we kind of back our way into the classics and getting a sense of you know, Euro, actually helping to get things on track into the myths as we understand them, but in a way of unpacking these heroes and villains and all of these multiplicities of relationships and getting into.

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Medusa is one of my favorite characters and in Yiro my version of her is that she and Perseus used to be boyfriend and girlfriend and it went south and the poets turned on her and there's a life that she would love to get back to and most people think she's dead and she's not.

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And so as the series kind of grows, Medusa ends up being kind of a mentor for Yuro and I really love their relationship.

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She's kind of like a big sister to him.

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I think Medusa got old school canceled.

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Yeah, oh, she really did.

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She really did.

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Everyone thought she had her head chopped off, and no, she just got dumped.

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It's never been easy.

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No, not, ever, not ever.

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Well, that is super exciting.

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We are looking forward to that in 2025.

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And we will definitely try to have you back right around your launch so we can talk about how it's gone, I think this sounds like exactly the kind of book that I, when I was writing middle grade, I was all about like the action, adventure, the humor, raising up the ridiculous.

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Oh, wonderful.

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It was fun to write.

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It's really fun to write and I think it's fun to read, so I think your book is well positioned for success.

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Okay, speaking about success Too Many Villains, which is what entry in the last comics on Earth is it.

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Is it number two?

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or three, it's number two.

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We tried to do a clever thing with the title because apparently folks, they don't like to put numbers in the sequels anymore, so we thought we were being clever.

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And you know, two for too many.

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Right, and clearly I am not clever, because I just totally missed that.

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That was not the first time.

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I'm not young enough to get it, I guess maybe that's what we should say.

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Yes, we're always trying to be.

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So this is the series that you do with Max Brailyard.

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Is that that's right?

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Right, we get a lot of questions about partnership, writing and co-writing, things of that nature on the show.

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Are you able to tell us just a little bit about what that is like working with Max and how you define your roles and just how the process works for you guys, because obviously you're doing it in a successful way?

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So if you can just give us a peek, yeah absolutely Well.

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First off, it's important to note Max is the worst.

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No, he's not.

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Max is a dear friend and we hit it off working on the animated series.

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So I was brought on by Scott Peterson, who I also co-write with on other things, like a book we did called Shipwreckers, and we also write on Phineas together.

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But coming onto that show, max and I hit it off.

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He and Scott and I have a lot of shared interests in horror, in gateway horror, monsters and zombies, all these things that Max and illustrator Doug Holgate built up for the Last Kids series proper.

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And so, working together and kind of building the hive mind that you make on a writing room in a writing room, you know we really hit it off and had similar sensibilities.

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And so when the time came to potentially spin off the series, max asked me on board and and we built kind of a funky spinoff where, essentially because in Last Kids Proper these are our four kids, they are the last kids on Earth there's a lot of stakes, a lot of saving the world, there's a lot of comedy, a lot of warmth and character and there's also no more comics being made.

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So there is a comic book store that Doug and Max put called Comically Speaking, in the center of Wakefield, in the proper universe, and it occurred to us that there would be no more comics and that at some point the kids would notice they would probably read every comic in the comic shop and there wouldn't be any left.

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So they do what any kid would do they make their own.

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So Jack, quint, june and Dirk write their own sequel to their favorite comic book series about a hero called Z-Man, and they put themselves with superhero alter egos into that comic book.

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So what we're seeing, as illustrated by Jay Cooper, who's an amazing collaborator and a hilariously funny illustrator and writer in his own right, essentially he is Quint's hand.

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So Quint, the character, is drawing this book and then all the kids are writing, and so that's kind of the comic, the concept at the heart of it, and we've built a giant sandbox for ourselves and essentially it comes down to Max and I staying up very late at night because we each have other responsibilities and jobs and we try to make each other laugh at like three o'clock in the morning and whatever makes us laugh sticks.

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And so we, as far as our specific collaboration goes now that I've given you a very long context, the way the collaboration works is that Max and I will actually break out an outline together, so we're coming up with all of the main story beats.

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Usually we're doing this over Zoom.

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Sometimes we get the chance to hang out and we'll actually do like a corkboard and we'll do note cards, kind of in a TV writing or script writing style, because we both have that experience and we're coming up with kind of the large story beats, four acts, four act structure, and then we kind of take that big malleable shape and then we start putting jokes in there and it's really about can we find a character story?

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You know we pitch things to each other and, granted, you know, max is, this is really his baby, so he's definitely driving, but I spend a lot of time backseat driving and, and you know, barking orders at him or where we think where I think we should be headed, but really it's like funniest gags, win, um, you know.

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And and if we both are cracking up, that means it's got a good chance of kind of sticking the landing and getting in the final book.

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Yeah, we don't, we don't argue too much.

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There's definitely times where, like I am arguing for something weirder and stupider and you know he might give me one or two.

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There's.

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There's a character in particular in this book called Public Domain Dracula.

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We go to an apocalypse full of vampires and one of them is a guy named Public Domain Dracula who has like a cheesy, trick or treat looking costume.

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And there's a moment in the book where we had to convince our editor two rounds of copy editors that we have to leave it in because it's not grammatically correct or make any sense at all.

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But it's some of my favorite stuff in the book.

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Public domain dracula is hilarious.

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You know he says things like welcome to my public domain.

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You know it's.

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It's weird, it's really weird.

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And, like you know, half of the kids won't get it.

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Other kids will ask their parent what public domain means.

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We do define it in the book I can just see a copy editor losing sleep over that, you know.

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Oh my gosh, yes, yes.

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Was it easier for the second book collaborating, do you?

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Did you feel like you were it was just an easier process on book two because you'd done it already, or was it?

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Did you feel like, okay, you know?

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you would think so, for for some reason and I couldn't I mean, we both have a lot on our plate, so that can certainly make it a challenge, but for some reason, two was definitely harder, but it's also a weirder book, so in some ways I'm grateful for it because I think it pushed us into some stranger areas.

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You know, we introduced a concept in book one.

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We have all these apocalypses, so there's a land called Apocalyptia.

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It's every apocalypse you can think of exists in this world.

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Scott, let's see, max and I wanted to have the biggest sandbox possible, and so one of them that we threw out as a gag was the knock-knock joke apocalypse, which again is abstract and doesn't make any sense.

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But because of where we were headed in book two, there was an opportunity for us to actually go there, and so max and I had to actually think about what that meant visually, and then kind of work in collaboration with jay, like what are we going to see when we go to a knock-knock joke apocalypse?

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Um, and I think that came out of, you know, a harder process.

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I think that came out of us struggling a little bit more with the story this time, but I think we ended up in a place where it benefited.

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Because it is a it is a wild ride book too.

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I'm going to go and get myself a copy because it sounds like exactly the sort of stuff that cracks me up.

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Oh good, where I you know public domain Dracula.

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That's right in my wheelhouse, that's awesome.

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I literally got a hat made for my signings.

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I went to the mall and like had them embroider it.

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It doesn't, you know, it doesn't make any sense, but it makes me deliriously happy.

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So we are going to transition into television, because that is a huge part of your career and everything that you've accomplished.

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And I should note that I am a huge Doctor who fan, as I think you already know, and I'm also a huge Phineas and Ferb fan.

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Yeah, love both of those.

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So, with that in mind, what was your first television job and how the heck did you land it?

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Like that's, you know that's pretty incredible to get to work in television every day it is.

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It's a dream really, and I found the longer I'm in it, the more I prefer it.

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I started my career in feature animation at DreamWorks and I worked in production and then moved into being a server artist but was doing a lot of writing and the first gig was Phineas back in 2011.

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So I joined the team in 2011 for season four, so that was actually my first TV job, and the thing I loved about television was all the at bats, the opportunities for stories, the like.

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Like essentially, every six weeks we're doing something new.

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Every six to eight weeks we do something new, and so I loved that.

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There was a hunger for story.

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What I had encountered at the feature level was that, because these projects were 80 to $90 million, there was so much writing on it that folks got precious or you would be working on something for months and months and months and months or years in most cases, and the thing with TV was that they were hungry for story.

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I didn't always feel like that was the case.

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I definitely ran into situations at the feature level and certainly I was a young, you know guy, I was still in training, but, you know, I just had lots of ideas and would run into situations where people didn't want them and like I just didn't understand.

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Like, of course, you know there's politics and diplomacy and all of that, and sometimes I'm obnoxious about that.

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But in the TV side there was, like there's like this need, it's hungry.

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You know the machine of working on a animated TV series.

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You know we've got 22,.

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On average, half hours of material that needs to be produced, and so in that there's two 11 minute episodes, which means you're talking about 38 to 40 stories that need to be broken, written, storyboarded, edited, et cetera.

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And and that's awesome, that is so exciting, that is such a great, huge, giant opportunity.

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And so you can take risks, you can throw things against the wall and see what sticks.

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You can take 11 minutes and explore one character and get into their head, get into their personality and their wants and needs, and then do something completely different in the next episode.

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So I just I'm on fire about that.

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I love that because I'm I'm the kind of person who, like I'm sure, like you, both of you you know you've got your board of all of your ideas right that you want to do, and if you started now and, let's say, you could afford yourself the opportunity to pursue each and every one.

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You would never run out, and so I'm in a similar position.

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So it's like I love playing in other people's sandboxes.

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Like you know the audio book that I did for Doctor who, for Big Finish, and you know the work I've done on other TV series, it's great to play in other people's sandboxes because I always feel like that sandbox may appear restrictive but I think you are free to dig deep in that sandbox and, you know, go up kind of above that sandbox.

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If you stay within kind of the constraints, I think constraints can be really freeing.

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And Phineas and Ferb is such a funny little irreverent show, Just like it just rocks me up and the characters are so unique and to be able to write for those that cast of characters must be so much fun it's a gift, like it's a gift of a universe and a place to play in.

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Yeah, it's wonderful.

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I love it.

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I would do it forever.

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I would I would genuinely do it forever.

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Well, as a fan, I would say yes, do it there was one time.

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This is just like a little side story.

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So I started watching it because my son was, you know, at the time when he was watching.

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It was like three or four and I was like come on, let's watch this show.

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This looks funny and we were at Disneyland one time and they came walking up, up like the little characters.

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Oh, my goodness.

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I lost my mind.

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I was like my God, it's Phineas and Ferb and my son's just like, oh my God, mom settle.

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And then they walked out and I was dancing with them and my husband has it like on film and I was just like trying to get my son to dance and he's just like, yeah, now.

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Oh, I love it.

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I love it, mom.

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You're so cringe, mom, that exists everything, so that must have just been so much fun.

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And then everything else that you've worked on is just you've.

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You've got it going on well.

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Thanks, lisa.

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Yeah, being a part of stuff that people love is like amazing, because I, because I've been a part of things that people ignore or they they didn't watch or that they don't embrace that much.

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So you know that, yeah, it's a gift to be able to be a part of something that people feel that strongly about.

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That's huge and and I feel lucky and privileged that I'll.

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You know, I'm gonna get to carry that with me kind of forever, you know well, it's funny when I saw that was in your bio when I first like somehow I can't remember how we connected on Twitter and when I read your bio I'm like, oh my god, this guy is like my new best friend.

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Lisa is your number one fan.

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So, this is actually a good.

00:20:24.523 --> 00:20:38.957
This is a good segue into our next question, because you were talking about how you enjoy being creative and, with these constraints, put on you kind of that idea of playing in somebody else's sandbox, like here's an idea, this is the TV show that we're making.

00:20:38.957 --> 00:20:40.676
You're the writer in the writer's room.

00:20:40.676 --> 00:20:44.459
So how does that collaboration work?

00:20:44.459 --> 00:20:50.563
So you're the writer, you've got this idea that you're, you know, part of a bigger, you know, series, whatever.

00:20:50.563 --> 00:20:53.660
How are you working with producers and directors?

00:20:53.660 --> 00:21:06.289
And what are the, I guess, what are the stakes for you as a writer who maybe did not originate the show Like it's not your show where you came up with the idea, but you're in that room trying to make it happen.

00:21:06.289 --> 00:21:09.077
How do all these parts go together?

00:21:09.679 --> 00:21:10.642
Yeah, that's a great question.

00:21:10.642 --> 00:21:13.536
You know, certainly it's different in show to show.

00:21:13.536 --> 00:21:26.212
I will say that kind of the best, the best experiences I've had are where it's a very open and collaborative space, and I don't mean that in a flippant way, I mean like literally.

00:21:26.212 --> 00:21:43.962
So in other words, working with people who aren't threatened by new ideas, people who genuinely want you to push and stretch at the borders of what defines whatever that show or that property or, you know, that legacy thing like Doctor who is.

00:21:43.962 --> 00:21:45.897
And really it does come down to leadership.

00:21:45.897 --> 00:21:59.544
It comes down to, you know, because I've worked with plenty of people who are threatened by good ideas and I've been blessed in my career to work with a handful of folks who aren't threatened by a good idea, because they know how to do everyone's job.

00:21:59.544 --> 00:22:07.536
You know there's a direct correlation I found with folks, especially in the animated space, you know, who want to go home at the end of the day.

00:22:07.536 --> 00:22:22.098
You know, who have people that they care about, you know, in their lives, and the, the series is a part of that, the show is a part of that, and so that really it trickles down from leadership.

00:22:22.098 --> 00:22:31.252
And so I think first it really starts with, you know head writers and producers who, who want the stuff you know, who are anxious for it, who are hungry for it.

00:22:31.252 --> 00:22:33.019
So I think that's step one.

00:22:33.923 --> 00:22:43.038
One of the things that I learned in my career that I always thought was really interesting is that there's there's never a conversation where someone says, okay, well, we want to make sure this is really good.

00:22:43.038 --> 00:22:46.874
Like nobody says that, like that's actually a part.

00:22:46.874 --> 00:22:57.142
There's a self kind of supervisory part of this process where you have your own intention, you have goals that you've set out as a creative person.

00:22:57.142 --> 00:23:00.756
So for me, part of it is what do I bring to the table?

00:23:00.756 --> 00:23:14.170
So for me it's like I love monster movies, I love science fiction, I love doctor who, I love Theater, so I am going to automatically pitch things that push whatever show I'm on in those directions.

00:23:14.170 --> 00:23:21.920
But I'm also a big softie and I'm a dad and so I you know Scott kind of coined.

00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:27.231
This years ago there was an episode of Milo Murphy's Law that I wrote that got nominated for an Annie Award.

00:23:27.231 --> 00:23:28.135
That was very exciting.

00:23:28.135 --> 00:23:40.059
And you know, when I turned in that script he was like Josh, you know, this is you, it's weird, it's funny, it's warm and it's insane.

00:23:40.059 --> 00:23:41.803
And I was like, oh, that's my brand.

00:23:41.803 --> 00:23:43.471
I was like that's what I do.

00:23:43.471 --> 00:23:52.511
So that's been kind of my checklist kind of since then was identifying oh, like, these are my superpowers.

00:23:53.394 --> 00:23:57.611
And and then for me, for the other part of that puzzle is, you know, I'm also a big structure guy.

00:23:57.611 --> 00:24:03.451
So I love getting the chance, especially on some larger episodes that I might work on.

00:24:03.451 --> 00:24:40.199
Like, if you look at my trajectory, like for people playing, paying very close attention, you might notice that you know, my name is on a lot of these larger specials or mid season finales or season finales, because my brain tends to go there, you know, and and I'm kind of a geek for structure, like I love kind of getting a sense of the whole and being like, oh good, if we line up these pieces in the right way, you know we could have something that really pays off and that feels like a rich reward for the viewers who are invested.

00:24:40.199 --> 00:24:50.651
But yeah, I think, as far as that actual environment goes, yeah, it's about figuring out how to support each other, having a room of folks who want to support each other's stories.

00:24:51.796 --> 00:25:07.631
I've definitely been in situations where I pitched something and it looks like it was dying on the vine because the producers felt one way or another about it, but then was supported by my team and that really could make or break a high concept or getting something across the finish line.

00:25:08.232 --> 00:25:20.017
And I've been in situations where the opposite was true and at a certain point that you know, that started to affect my standing on the show because folks' impression of what I was pitching or writing was that it wasn't up to snuff.

00:25:20.017 --> 00:25:23.380
But the reality was, you know, I wasn't getting the support.

00:25:23.380 --> 00:25:25.136
That support and advocacy is important.

00:25:25.136 --> 00:25:41.604
So I think one of the things that I've tried to build as a discipline, as a muscle, is, you know, how can I support other people in the room the way I want to be supported, getting behind other people's story ideas, helping get things across that finish line, because no one pitches something they don't like.

00:25:41.604 --> 00:25:50.940
The reality is it takes time and effort, heart, to build these things and have the confidence to pitch them to very smart and talented people on a weekly basis.

00:25:50.940 --> 00:25:52.547
So nobody pitches something they think is going to be terrible.

00:25:52.547 --> 00:25:54.673
Everybody pitches stuff they want to see made.

00:25:54.874 --> 00:26:10.138
So that is like the perfect segue into the next question, because you've already been talking about it and what it's like in the writer's room and how this dynamic influences the scripts and, like I said, you've already touched on it, but I would love to hear more on that.

00:26:10.199 --> 00:26:12.782
Yeah, yeah, it's, and again, I think it's it's.

00:26:12.782 --> 00:26:35.601
One of the superpowers of TV is is you know, when you get eight or 10 people in a room all of different life backgrounds, life experiences, funny, and have their own superpowers, right, like, if I'm structure guy and weird sci-fi horror guy, there's going to be, you know, a woman across the room who's super into like character nuance, right?

00:26:35.601 --> 00:26:42.071
So then the idea is, if we combine our superpowers, if we get these really talented and smart people, everything gets better.

00:26:42.071 --> 00:26:46.166
And the beauty part about working in animation is that it's iterative.

00:26:46.166 --> 00:26:50.901
So essentially, you have opportunities at the script stage to punch things up.

00:26:50.901 --> 00:27:00.457
You have opportunity at the storyboard stage, you have opportunities in editorial and then even in color to tweak jokes, make things sing, make things better.

00:27:00.457 --> 00:27:15.757
But it's like if that room is open and warm and positive, everyone is helping each other, everyone is genuinely invested in making that script, that idea, the best it can possibly be.

00:27:16.238 --> 00:27:26.737
And when it's not, you know that's how you get into like toxic spaces where it's really competitive and people are trying to knock each other down or, like you know, kill ideas, et cetera.

00:27:26.737 --> 00:27:35.019
It's very ugly and you know, I have, I have friends in the live action space and it's very different, very different environments.

00:27:35.019 --> 00:27:40.116
It can be uh, but yeah, when it's working, that's what it is.

00:27:40.116 --> 00:27:44.173
When it's working, it really is like it's a chorus, it's a band, you know it's.

00:27:44.173 --> 00:27:53.005
It's like oh great, you know, sometimes I'll pitch something, I'll bring something into the room and there'll be somebody specific that I want their, I want everyone's input.

00:27:53.005 --> 00:28:12.151
But absolutely there are times where it's like, oh, I would really love your instinct on this because I haven't cracked it and you know that's a safe and creative place to be in and I think it shows, you know, I think the people yeah, beth, good I have a question.

00:28:12.592 --> 00:28:14.875
Yes, that just occurred to me.

00:28:14.875 --> 00:28:18.923
So you have done all of this collaborative work.

00:28:18.923 --> 00:28:25.537
The way that you describe the writer's room very collaborative, I like what you said about this is this person's superpower, this is mine.

00:28:25.537 --> 00:28:30.069
When we put them together, wow, amazing episode, amazing character development.

00:28:30.069 --> 00:28:34.381
You worked with Max on the Last Comics on Earth.

00:28:34.381 --> 00:28:39.212
What was it like to do your solo middle grade?

00:28:39.212 --> 00:28:56.660
The Eurobooks Was that hard, because everything is your responsibility, is your responsibility and we we know, as fellow writers, that writing novels is a very solitary process at least for the bulk of it.

00:28:56.681 --> 00:28:57.000
So what was that?

00:28:57.442 --> 00:29:07.751
like for you to go from that one very collaborative everybody putting in universe to being alone with your screen yeah, it's a great question.

00:29:07.952 --> 00:29:08.554
It's it's a.

00:29:08.554 --> 00:29:19.472
It's a funky thing because it's like, even conceptually, this idea of like go off by yourself and be brilliant, and it's like, okay, sure, how does anybody do that?

00:29:19.472 --> 00:29:25.086
But for me it's like sometimes that solo is respite, it's a.

00:29:25.086 --> 00:29:31.321
You know, something that I really need because so much of what I do is collaborative.

00:29:31.321 --> 00:29:33.878
So there's definitely times where I'm like you know what.

00:29:33.878 --> 00:29:37.955
I don't want to ask anybody's opinion about this, I don't want feedback on this.

00:29:37.955 --> 00:29:41.619
I have a really specific notion about what this is.

00:29:41.890 --> 00:29:48.882
I think the other thing is is I loved, I wanted ownership over some of the things that I did?

00:29:48.882 --> 00:30:09.538
So not just you know, from a legal standpoint which I do and we should talk about IP and things like that but also, I think, you know, emotionally, conceptually, being able to be the arbiter myself, and you know I would say I'm very lucky in the course of my career where I'm working with a lot of folks like I've shared that.

00:30:09.538 --> 00:30:25.632
That you know I am able to contribute at a pretty high level and that makes me feel good, it makes me feel like I'm a part of the team, like I've really contributed, and you know, my batting average is gets higher for that as my career progresses, which I'm hugely grateful for.

00:30:25.632 --> 00:30:34.898
But I think periodically it's good to be in the quiet on my own.

00:30:34.898 --> 00:30:36.903
You know where I get to make those choices and I get to be the driver.

00:30:36.903 --> 00:30:42.560
I think part of it too is the is which projects I'm determining that I want to do that with.

00:30:42.560 --> 00:31:04.928
So, like on, when Scott Peterson and I did shipwreckers like, the high concept for the book was you know, if Indiana Jones was an idiot and you know the kids are short round, you know they did all the work and you know, had to save their bacon, save them from, you know, living temples and big adventures, jungle cruise type stuff.

00:31:04.928 --> 00:31:26.188
But uh, you know that was something that really benefited conceptually at every stage from Scott and I bouncing ideas off each other and Euro, by its nature, is a much more intimate story and so when I'm looking at, you know, my board of ideas, I'm actually organizing them in that way.

00:31:26.674 --> 00:31:33.946
So there's some things that I've looked at and I said, nope, that one's fine, this is the one I have to get both hands around and I'm going to just handle this by myself.

00:31:33.946 --> 00:31:36.099
And then there's other ones where I look at it and go.

00:31:36.099 --> 00:31:37.522
No, no, no.

00:31:37.522 --> 00:31:41.760
This project would be great to have another brilliant head on.

00:31:41.760 --> 00:31:48.019
I would love to work with somebody on this or this, and even the things that I had planned for the next couple of years.

00:31:48.019 --> 00:31:49.281
There's a balance.

00:31:49.281 --> 00:31:53.890
There's there's some things I'm so excited about where I'm going to be working with other people.

00:31:53.890 --> 00:31:56.344
Scott and I have another book that we're editing right now.

00:31:56.344 --> 00:31:58.621
That's middle grade horror.

00:31:58.621 --> 00:32:10.722
I'm so excited because we haven't done anything officially in that space and you know, max and I are talking about things and I have other hugely talented collaborators who want to work with me, which is so exciting.

00:32:10.722 --> 00:32:13.623
But yeah, for me it's identifying the project.

00:32:13.623 --> 00:32:19.827
Which project could benefit from this sort of approach versus a different approach?

00:32:20.556 --> 00:32:22.544
That's an interesting way to frame it.

00:32:22.544 --> 00:32:37.326
So, rather than you know, you have a lot of different options before you, a lot of different options before you in the way that you see the story can fit into these different boxes, which I think is a cool way to think about story overall.

00:32:37.326 --> 00:32:50.807
Our last question for you and we ask this of almost everybody who comes on our show what advice would you give to aspiring writers, either in television, somebody sitting down to write their first middle grade?

00:32:50.807 --> 00:32:53.845
What words of wisdom would you have to pass on to them?

00:32:58.875 --> 00:32:59.616
There's a couple of things.

00:32:59.616 --> 00:33:00.680
One is the.

00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:09.634
I was talking to some folks recently at a couple events, some young people, and one of the biggest things is you know, obviously the industry is scary right now.

00:33:09.634 --> 00:33:10.557
Things appear to be contracting.

00:33:10.557 --> 00:33:10.915
You know, obviously the industry is scary right now.

00:33:10.915 --> 00:33:23.382
Things appear to be contracting, you know, and certainly I've seen in my own career, I've seen animation kind of ebb and flow and film and TV ebb and flow and things go up and down, but it's pretty bleak out there right now.

00:33:23.615 --> 00:33:28.801
So largely what I'm chatting with folks about is this is the perfect time to go and make things.

00:33:28.801 --> 00:33:31.625
Go write those books, go make those graphic novels.

00:33:31.625 --> 00:33:47.637
Go, you know, shoot shorts with your friends, make stuff, because there's going to be a time where some of this shakes itself out and the folks who are interested in buying and publishing or television and film, they're going to get hungry again, you know so.

00:33:47.637 --> 00:33:49.883
So there is a ebb and flow to this.

00:33:49.883 --> 00:33:51.307
There's a cyclical nature to this.

00:33:51.307 --> 00:33:55.866
Right now is a great time to hunker down and write those stories.

00:33:55.866 --> 00:34:02.883
You know the thing that I always have to remind myself I don't necessarily do as much development in TV as I used to do because I would.

00:34:03.243 --> 00:34:10.065
Now I'm in a place where I'd much rather go and write the story, and often development is like an exercise in asking permission.

00:34:10.065 --> 00:34:11.728
You have a lot more masters.

00:34:11.728 --> 00:34:17.197
There's things that are beneficial to that.

00:34:17.197 --> 00:34:26.054
Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's networking and establishing yourself with a studio or producers that you want to work with but often you don't get the chance to tell the story and there's a lot of talking about the story.

00:34:26.054 --> 00:34:33.657
So I think now is a great time to go and make the book, actually go tell that story.

00:34:33.657 --> 00:34:36.463
You don't have to ask for permission, you just go do it.

00:34:36.463 --> 00:34:58.228
So that's like, honestly, my advice to myself that I've been sharing with everybody lately, because you know, if you don't write it, no one will, and and I think that there's a lot of wisdom in this notion of like write what you want to read I feel like that has really benefited me over the years.

00:34:58.228 --> 00:35:06.306
It's opened up doors into worlds that I have wanted to work in and created new opportunities for me as well.

00:35:06.306 --> 00:35:07.996
So I think that's the biggest one.

00:35:08.297 --> 00:35:08.998
I love that.

00:35:08.998 --> 00:35:14.067
I think that that is how I have kind of molded my own writing career.

00:35:14.067 --> 00:35:16.777
I'm writing what I want to read, and that changes.

00:35:17.177 --> 00:35:18.159
It's changed, it does.

00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:38.199
Yes, five years that I've been publishing, I liked this and now I like this, and I think that's a really smart way to think about it is that you need to be doing the work, and the trends come and go, stuff is popular and then it's not, and then it is again, but if you don't have stuff ready to put into the pipeline, you're never going to get anywhere.

00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:39.001
That's very wise.

00:35:39.041 --> 00:35:47.476
Hopefully people pay attention to that and, you know, jot it down, stick it on their, their board oh, one more thing, beth, that I would love to build on that if I could really quick the.

00:35:47.476 --> 00:35:49.960
The other thing is, I think, strategizing your career.

00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:58.490
I think us as creatives, we don't tend to use that other side of our brain and I think, thinking ahead to where you want to be in five years, what does that look like?

00:35:58.490 --> 00:36:03.958
And thinking about it strategically, you know, for Scott and I initially it was.

00:36:03.958 --> 00:36:07.784
You know, we did a novelization of Jon Favreau's Jungle Book.

00:36:07.784 --> 00:36:09.244
What that did?

00:36:09.244 --> 00:36:12.768
Not a lot of money there, certainly not a lot of prestige.

00:36:12.768 --> 00:36:19.204
The folks who read the book enjoyed it, but it sold well and it proved to the editors that we could produce.

00:36:19.204 --> 00:36:25.706
And so we use that as an opportunity to pitch shipwreckers.

00:36:25.706 --> 00:36:33.664
And so for me, part of that strategy is like leveraging something that you've done or do well, or it's something that you want to do.

00:36:34.065 --> 00:36:48.842
On Mystery Science Theater, I had an opportunity where they needed somebody at a price to do storyboards for the relaunch of the series for Netflix, and I was a fan and I was into it and I was, you know, sign me up dream come true for 13 year old Josh.

00:36:48.842 --> 00:36:52.719
But as I was doing the work and delivering what they needed.

00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:57.617
I asked if I could also write riffs and Joel the creator he was, he was down.

00:36:57.617 --> 00:36:59.041
He was like, yeah, of course, absolutely.

00:36:59.041 --> 00:37:03.818
So I got the chance to write for one of my favorite shows ever, ever.

00:37:03.818 --> 00:37:09.126
But I was only in that position because there was something that I could do that they needed.

00:37:09.668 --> 00:37:18.862
So I think it's like you know, there's certainly people who you know can take that into a negative way, where maybe people are worried about being manipulative or something.

00:37:18.862 --> 00:37:24.956
But I think it has more to do with what can you offer somebody else and how do you be helpful, how can you support others?

00:37:24.956 --> 00:37:29.907
And then it's hey, you ask, you know you ask about that thing that you really want.

00:37:29.907 --> 00:37:33.175
And then it's hey, you ask, you know you ask about that thing that you really want.

00:37:33.175 --> 00:37:44.355
But I think, taking a beat, thinking short term and long term about your strategies, as a creative person, I'm not sure that we do that enough, you know, because largely we're just trying to find the next thing, trying to make that next connection or create that next opportunity.

00:37:44.355 --> 00:37:48.539
But I think, if you're thinking ahead, you know, I think there's a significant benefit to that.

00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:50.842
If you're thinking ahead, you know, I think there's a significant benefit to that.

00:37:50.862 --> 00:37:56.951
That is actually really, I think, smart too, because I know a lot of creative people aren't thinking like that.

00:37:56.951 --> 00:37:58.460
It's more reactive.

00:37:58.460 --> 00:38:01.483
Yes, and you can be proactive.

00:38:01.483 --> 00:38:04.563
I liked your example of I got my foot in the door this way.

00:38:04.563 --> 00:38:06.621
Yeah, Proved that I'm reliable.

00:38:06.621 --> 00:38:11.867
You know, I show up, I do the work and then you ask for the thing and all they can do is say no.

00:38:11.987 --> 00:38:21.655
That's right, but if you never, ask you never know, so I think that is a great note for us to wrap up on Awesome and thank you.

00:38:21.655 --> 00:38:23.143
Thank you, Josh, for being here.

00:38:23.143 --> 00:38:24.335
This has been super interesting.

00:38:24.335 --> 00:38:33.641
I know there's always a lot of interest in kind of how you can be a writer in different spaces, so this, I think, will be a great episode for our listeners.

00:38:34.182 --> 00:38:45.527
Oh, my pleasure and listeners, remember you can find out more about Josh on his website, which I'll put in the podcast notes and the blog, and be sure to visit writerswithfrinklesnet to follow, support and share about the show.

00:38:45.527 --> 00:38:50.606
And we will see you again next week, june 3rd, for a deep dive episode.

00:38:50.606 --> 00:38:53.378
So, one more time, thank you for joining us, josh.

00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:57.168
My pleasure, my pleasure and until we see you again.

00:38:57.375 --> 00:39:00.490
Happy reading, writing and listening.