Perseverance and Possibilities with author Bitsy Kemper

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Hi friends.

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I'm Beth McMullen,

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and I'm Lisa Schmid,

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and we're the cohost of writers with wrinkles.

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This is season three episode eighteen, and today we are excited to welcome Bixie Kemper to the show.

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From humble beginnings as the youngest of five kids raised by a single dad after her mom died when she was too.

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Bitsi was an eager student who went on to earn two undergraduate degrees and an MBA.

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After a career in tech marketing and PR, including writing a syndicated newspaper column and being interviewed at places like CNN and CBS National Radio, Bizzie found her true calling as an author.

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She has published twenty three children's books along with her brand new devotional mommy and me micro moments, which is available now wherever you buy books.

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So welcome to the show, Vitzy.

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We are super excited to have you here today.

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Well, thanks for having me.

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Gosh, that intro makes me sound much more important than I am.

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You know what?

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We often have people after I read their intro.

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They're like, wow.

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I'm really awesome.

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Look at all these things I did.

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There's something about having it in a list that makes it seem like, I'm pretty cool.

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You are pretty cool.

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Right.

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Something else saying it, not me.

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Right?

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Exactly.

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You're impressive.

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Okay.

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So I am just gonna say talk about my first impressions of Bitsey Kim.

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Like, roll back in time.

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It's

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been a while.

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That has been a while.

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And so this was years ago.

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You were my regional advisor for a CBWI.

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And I had no idea I knew nothing about the kidlet world.

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I I don't even remember how I found out about a CBWI, but I I stumbled upon it, and I went to our local conference.

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And so I was kinda walking in.

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I was nervous.

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I'm like, am I gonna fit in?

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Like, who are these people and so I sat down to the table and all of a sudden you burst onto the scene.

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Onto the stage and it was like this wave of energy and just complete joy.

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And I was like, I remember thinking right in that moment.

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I my people.

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And I just fell in love with you.

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And we have slowly, over the years, become friends.

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And I remember thinking, like, one of those times, I'm one of those people that always freaks out that, oh, I have an author friend.

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And I remember at one point, I was like, my god.

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Betsy Kemper and I are friends now.

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Like, it was just such a cool moment for me.

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It was because, you know, you, like, personified cadet, and you do so much in your larger than life, and now you're my friend, and I love you, So I just you know, you are that person that I wish was that every SCBWI conference because then people would know that they're in the right place.

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That's very sweet, Lisa.

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Now, I had to tell you, I remember talking to you at one of the smaller gatherings at the library, the local library, And I have this impression a lot, so I apologize in advance for what I'm gonna say.

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Like, people come up and they'll say, oh, yeah.

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So I wanna write a book and I don't know anything about it, so that's why I'm here.

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And I'll be like, oh, how cute.

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Like, you know, sure.

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You're just gonna write a book Right?

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Everyone everyone thinks they're just gonna walk in and write a book.

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So you guys said that and I thought, that's so sweet.

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And it feels like a week later, you're like, oh, I got a contract.

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And I was like, what weren't you just talking about how you wanted to write a book?

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And now you've written it and it's going to be published?

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Like, I was so bored at the speed at which you ramped up.

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Was it the Arden library?

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No.

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I think it was the Eldorado Hills library when had one of the quarterly meetings, I could be wrong.

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Because I know Beth, that's where I first met you.

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Was that one of the library ones?

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And you were you were very you're like, oh, yeah.

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I have written a couple books and yeah.

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I'm gonna do middle grade, and I'm like, okay.

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Great.

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And I look you up and I'm like, holy cow.

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For now,

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I was so lost.

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How many books do you have,

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Beth?

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Tim.

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Ten.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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Nothing nothing.

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This is a perfect segue into our first question because you, as I said, and I hope everybody heard the aw in my voice during the intro.

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You have over twenty books out with more on the way.

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Which is an insane number.

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That's an insane number of books to be published.

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And for everybody out there who has published one book, they know what it would be like to do that.

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Twenty plus times.

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So what is your secret to staying in the publishing game so long?

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We know publishing is changing constantly.

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And when Lisa wrote this question, she put in this line which cracked me up.

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Translation to the question, how have you maintained your sanity and positive attitude, which I was like, yeah, I think that gets right to the heart of what we wanna know.

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The secret is to just not give up.

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I mean, I'm very persistent.

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I have been referred to as a bulldog, which I assume is not my looks, but my tenacity.

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My refusing to get rid of that bone that someone has passed my way.

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Right?

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So I I don't like hearing no because that just challenge me, challenges me to do more.

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To do better.

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So that's kind of my personality work.

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But at the same time, I think one of the reasons I kept going because you hear know a lot in this industry.

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Right?

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You hear, oh, how cute when you tell someone you write children's books.

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It's very humbling.

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But every time a rejection comes through, it it smarts.

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Right?

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Because we feel, this is us where writers and we wrote something and this is a part of me.

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So I'm sharing a part of me with you and you just said you don't like it.

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So therefore, you don't like me.

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And that is really really hard to not do.

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So I'll tell you, I spent at least two years where I just said, I I can't, like, I'll write a little bit on my own.

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But I'm tapped out.

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I just can't hear no anymore.

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But I did keep writing and I still have to work at this But if you can distance yourself from the rejection, not being a rejection of you, not even necessarily being a rejection of your work, but it's a rejection of not for me right now.

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And if you could take that personalness away from it, It's much easier to have a rejection.

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That way you can hear, okay, does it work for her right now?

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I'll send it to him.

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Uh-huh.

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K?

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Doesn't it work for him right now?

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I'll send it to him.

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It's just so much easier when you look at it that way.

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I think that's really wise.

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And that that comes with your long view your perspective because you have been in this game a very long time Right.

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That it is not a personal character of you thing.

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It's the work not fitting into what that particular editor wants, needs, has to have at that time.

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It's really It's I know that in education, they talk a lot about growth mindset.

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Mhmm.

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And that's what that feels like to me.

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It's not right right now.

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It might be right later.

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Some distant thing, but it's not a closely open, can keep going forward.

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I love that.

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I'm already, like, I'm putting those quotes in the social media for this episode because everybody needs to hear that fabulous.

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I I think it's like auditioning.

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If you're an actor and you're auditioning for a role, Think of how many actors, like fabulous actors that have talked about how many roles they didn't get.

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It's not that they can't act It's not that they're a crappy actor.

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It's just that that role wasn't for them.

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They just didn't fit that part that they were specifically looking for.

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And a lot of far work is like that.

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Like, an editor can't tell you, I want a cat I want a story about cats that involves rain and Massachusetts.

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I mean, they could have that in their head, but they won't know that that's what they're looking for until they see it.

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So How can I possibly know that they're looking for a cat with the rain in Massachusetts?

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I just I can't.

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And when they find one, That's what they're looking for, and that's why I like it.

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It's not personal.

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That's one of the best analogies I've ever heard.

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And I just saw that Steve Martin was talking about somebody had said, you know, how do you handle all the rejection?

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How do you, like, keep moving forward?

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What's the secret?

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And his answer was keep doing the work.

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Just keep doing work, keep getting better, and you will eventually find that yes, that you're looking for.

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It's just a matter of keep moving forward, keep doing the work, keep your head down, and don't take it personally.

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I love that.

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You guys both know our author friend, Aaron Dealy.

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And she always says, which I appreciate a lot, is it's not a no.

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It's a not yet.

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Or it's a no for now.

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So if you can add that yet or for now to the end of your rejection, that's so helpful.

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Now, that's huge.

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So talking about some of the things that you've done, you've also been a successful ghostwriter, which I know so many people are really interested in because it can be a way to supplement your income as a writer while you're working on your own original work that you can make some income as a ghost writer.

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But that really takes an exceptional skill and an understanding of the craft.

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And can you talk to our listeners about the intricacies of this profession and how to cover these unique opportunities because I we just had lunch, what was adjusters about six months ago, and you shared with me, a couple ghostwriting deals that you got, and I was blown away.

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I'm like, who is it?

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And you're like, yeah.

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I can't tell you.

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Then I was like, you were like a spy.

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And like, oh my god.

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She just got so much cooler.

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So tell you know, talk to people about that.

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How did you get started?

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How does it work?

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And how do you work on that?

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Kind of craft to be a ghostwriter.

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Okay.

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Where do I start with that?

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I well, I'll start, I guess, from the beginning, the first job that I had was writing for hire, which is very similar to ghost writing.

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And I found those opportunities through s c b w i's, the book.

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Right?

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And in case people are listening, that is the Society of Children's Bookwriters and Illustrators.

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And you would think writers could come up with a better acronym, but There we are.

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S c b w I.

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So they have something from Bembers called The Book.

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And it is this amazing resource of editors and agents, their addresses, what they like, and there's also a section on something called packages.

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Okay?

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And, Beth Lisa, do you guys know a pack had you heard of packagers before you were Writing.

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This is the first time I've heard of it, so enlighten me.

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I had heard of them once I started writing.

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I had no idea that existed back when I was just a person who read books and didn't write them.

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Right.

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What I did is I went through the book, through s c b w I, right for hire or packages.

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So I just made note of all of them.

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And similarly, I did cover letter attached to writing resume and a writing sample.

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If you aren't published, you can still include a writing sample.

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And it may be one fiction, one non fiction.

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And you can emphasize any other related writing tasks.

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Maybe you're a member of s c b w I, for example.

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And then you submit them.

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So I probably sent out twenty.

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I don't know.

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Then you sit and wait and hope someday they'll get back to you.

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Some of them responded, thanks.

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We'll put you on our list.

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Most of them did not respond at all.

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One of my first right for hire from a packager was they contacted me and said, hey, we have a financial book series, a chapter book series, about investing and spending.

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Would you like to write it?

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And I'm like, oh my gosh, did you know that I have a major I've majored Nick and Monics and I have a master's degree.

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Oh my god.

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This is so perfect.

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I would love to do that.

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That was like, so perfect for me.

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Okay.

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I didn't say that, but, you know, that's how I was feeling.

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I was so excited.

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And as soon as I hit enter, face palm.

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Oh my gosh.

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Of course, they know that.

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I told them I have a undergraduate degree in economics and a master's in in business.

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Right?

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So, of course, they knew that.

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That's why they asked me to do it.

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So, an important part of approaching packages and people that hire, right for hire, is clarifying your expertise, what you're good at, and or what you like.

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Like I mentioned, travel.

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I've never gotten anyone to ask me to write about travel, but I was kind of hoping to use that as an excuse to go to Greece or something.

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Oh, no, wait, I take that back.

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Again, I have four books.

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I'm pointing behind me that no one can see.

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I do.

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I have four books, they're called, it's a country series.

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And they had probably twenty and they asked me to write four of them.

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Can I just say this is something that only happens to people who have written twenty plus books where they forget about four titles that they have written?

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This is like my favorite moment so far in this episode where you're like, yeah.

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Oh, no, I did.

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I wrote four bucks.

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Not one.

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Four.

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I'm it treats I

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love that so much.

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So part of the reason is, you you know, we talked about how this is me and how personal our work is.

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One of the reasons I think it didn't come to top of mind is because it wasn't my idea.

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I didn't say I'm gonna write about the UK.

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And not only that, I didn't come up with the idea.

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I'm gonna write a book about the UK that has seven chapters that includes a map that includes activities that include right So they present all of that to me.

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And it depends on how far along they are or what specific needs they have because they may have it all written out every chapter and what you have to write in that chapter.

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You just have to do it.

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Or they'll give you a title and say, run with it.

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So I would say as far as writing for hire in a way it's less creative because you have to do what they want you to do.

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But, Lisa, you had mentioned ghost writing.

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Very similarly, what's challenging is you have to match their voice.

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You have to I mean, I could write this beautiful story about their life, but it has to be in their words with their personality to it.

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And I can tell you one of the people that I interviewed particularly have no personality whatsoever.

00:14:35.418 --> 00:14:36.499
Just zero.

00:14:36.499 --> 00:14:42.433
And like, how can you be this famous and this public and this amazing public figure.

00:14:42.433 --> 00:14:43.053
What happened?

00:14:43.053 --> 00:14:43.793
No personality.

00:14:43.793 --> 00:14:48.910
So it could be that it didn't come across in any of our phone interviews.

00:14:48.910 --> 00:14:55.547
But it could also be that when they're not on camera, they're just a mellow person like we are.

00:14:55.547 --> 00:15:03.062
So In that case, I had to create a personality that I thought the public would accept.

00:15:03.062 --> 00:15:09.629
I had to create a personality that I thought that person would say, oh, yeah, I could have done that.

00:15:09.629 --> 00:15:15.225
So it was challenging to do that because I don't really know them.

00:15:15.225 --> 00:15:19.383
But I got experience as a development editor.

00:15:19.383 --> 00:15:24.380
I was working for a while for a a packager as their development editor.

00:15:24.380 --> 00:15:34.404
A development editor comes in after something is written and makes sure that it's written exactly the way they ask the person to write it.

00:15:34.404 --> 00:15:36.943
And there are a lot of famous people that I did that for.

00:15:36.943 --> 00:15:42.860
Some of them, one person I wrote was was barely literate.

00:15:42.860 --> 00:15:45.798
And I had to rewrite everything.

00:15:45.798 --> 00:15:50.995
And I can guarantee you that this person is gonna look at their book and say, I did that.

00:15:50.995 --> 00:15:51.576
Wow.

00:15:51.576 --> 00:15:52.995
I can't believe I'm this good.

00:15:52.995 --> 00:15:58.182
Because I had to take everything in their voice and rework it to make sense.

00:15:58.182 --> 00:16:09.583
So I feel like I honed that skill as a development editor because I had to go through the book and figure out what doesn't fit how come it doesn't fit?

00:16:09.583 --> 00:16:10.964
How can I make it fit?

00:16:10.964 --> 00:16:14.601
So that was a good entry into my ghost writing.

00:16:14.601 --> 00:16:21.717
And ghost writing kind of comes after you have done some right for hire for a while.

00:16:21.717 --> 00:16:26.354
You get your name out there, so that's how I kept kept going with the ghost writing.

00:16:26.354 --> 00:16:27.913
It's the very first one that I did.

00:16:27.913 --> 00:16:30.173
That also was a series of four books.

00:16:30.173 --> 00:16:32.471
And they said, yeah, this is great.

00:16:32.471 --> 00:16:33.710
It's a short time frame.

00:16:33.710 --> 00:16:35.229
I can turn things around quickly.

00:16:35.229 --> 00:16:35.889
I listen.

00:16:35.889 --> 00:16:37.847
I don't miss deadlines.

00:16:37.847 --> 00:16:39.966
They like me to keep going.

00:16:40.605 --> 00:16:44.143
How does it feel like when you know you've ghostwritten something?

00:16:44.143 --> 00:16:48.879
And thank you for clarifying the difference between ghostwriting and writing for hire.

00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:54.917
And so how does it feel when you see your book, your words with somebody else's name on it?

00:16:54.917 --> 00:16:56.796
They're take I mean, taking credit for it.

00:16:56.796 --> 00:17:00.573
And that that must be a really interesting experience.

00:17:01.072 --> 00:17:01.812
It's interesting.

00:17:01.812 --> 00:17:02.273
Yes.

00:17:02.273 --> 00:17:05.931
I still I'm still proud and excited when I see it on a shelf.

00:17:05.931 --> 00:17:12.346
And sometimes they will put in the forward or to the acknowledgments or whatever, they'll thank someone for their help.

00:17:12.346 --> 00:17:29.057
And so I've been included in that a couple times I have strongly encouraged some writers to include my name because I've done I did so much rewriting for them, but it is kind of awkward to to know that I did that, and I I can't really tell people that I did it.

00:17:29.057 --> 00:17:30.237
A couple Oh.

00:17:30.237 --> 00:17:31.836
And look, I I helped with this.

00:17:31.836 --> 00:17:34.654
I can't believe that I helped with this, but I helped with this.

00:17:35.184 --> 00:17:39.762
And I applied you with Champagne when we were celebrating your book deal.

00:17:39.762 --> 00:17:43.278
And you had the audacity not to tell me which I thought was

00:17:43.278 --> 00:17:45.138
it was digging through the dirt.

00:17:45.138 --> 00:17:46.717
That is very funny.

00:17:46.717 --> 00:17:50.675
Well, this just is part of the package that people get when they work with you.

00:17:50.675 --> 00:17:52.174
You wear lips or sealed.

00:17:52.794 --> 00:17:53.034
Right.

00:17:53.034 --> 00:17:55.972
But and that's an important part of ghostwriting as well.

00:17:55.972 --> 00:18:02.179
If I tell people if you just have to tell one wrong person, or tell it at the wrong time.

00:18:02.179 --> 00:18:06.717
And if they find out that I told people that I wrote it, they will never work with me again.

00:18:07.016 --> 00:18:07.336
Right.

00:18:07.336 --> 00:18:18.609
It sounds like your reputation once you've gotten that first job and you've done well and you proved yourself in that sort of, you know, technical writing domain, then it's really reputation.

00:18:18.609 --> 00:18:19.548
Right?

00:18:19.548 --> 00:18:28.502
And if you're reliable, like you said, and you turn stuff in on time, and you're discreet then they're gonna keep coming back because you are the whole package.

00:18:28.502 --> 00:18:30.001
That was very interesting.

00:18:30.001 --> 00:18:41.983
I've always wondered about a lot of those things So turning a little bit toward how generous you are and what a tremendous this resource you are to the writing community.

00:18:41.983 --> 00:18:46.582
I think of you as kind of an ideal literary citizen as they say Mhmm.

00:18:46.582 --> 00:18:50.210
Because you you do give so much back to this community.

00:18:50.210 --> 00:18:52.887
Of course, your extensive work with SCBWI.

00:18:52.887 --> 00:18:57.006
You were running the whole shebang in our region when I joined.

00:18:57.006 --> 00:18:58.864
Bunch of years ago.

00:18:58.864 --> 00:19:04.682
So, but you have a few things that you do with the thirty one day author platform challenge and your list of publishers.

00:19:04.682 --> 00:19:10.307
Can you tell us a little bit about those so that our listeners can benefit from them?

00:19:10.967 --> 00:19:11.467
Sure.

00:19:11.467 --> 00:19:15.884
So I did create something called the thirty one day author plaque form challenge.

00:19:15.884 --> 00:19:18.023
Because we're writers.

00:19:18.023 --> 00:19:18.523
Right?

00:19:18.523 --> 00:19:20.882
Most of us are introverts.

00:19:20.882 --> 00:19:23.201
We are not marketers.

00:19:23.201 --> 00:19:25.759
Especially marketers of ourselves.

00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:26.378
Right?

00:19:26.378 --> 00:19:28.837
Again, that how personal our work is.

00:19:28.837 --> 00:19:35.833
So it's really, really hard for most authors to even want to have a social media presence, but we need one.

00:19:35.833 --> 00:19:40.570
And this is how we're gonna sell books, and we don't write a book to not sell it.

00:19:40.570 --> 00:19:43.509
So it is okay to champion yourself.

00:19:43.509 --> 00:19:44.468
It is okay.

00:19:44.468 --> 00:19:53.823
Others I'm telling all of you, it is totally acceptable for you to be proud of your work and want other people to know about it and maybe buy it.

00:19:53.823 --> 00:19:54.583
Okay?

00:19:54.583 --> 00:20:03.198
So a social media presence is very important increasingly important with editors and agents.

00:20:03.198 --> 00:20:08.844
They wanna see that you have a following because They know that's a built in bio based.

00:20:08.844 --> 00:20:11.501
Some editors and agents say, they don't care.

00:20:11.501 --> 00:20:20.906
I feel like that's getting increasingly more rare to find someone that says that, but the purpose of the author platform is just to get your name out there, like a celebrity.

00:20:20.906 --> 00:20:25.223
No one's gonna cast a celebrity in a lead role never heard of them.

00:20:25.223 --> 00:20:25.723
Right.

00:20:26.423 --> 00:20:27.742
I you know, I agree with that.

00:20:27.742 --> 00:20:32.340
I've like, we've asked a couple people that question, a couple of editors, and they're like, yeah, no.

00:20:32.340 --> 00:20:33.269
It doesn't matter.

00:20:33.269 --> 00:20:39.986
But then I hear from agents and I recently watched like a kind of a state of the union Mhmm.

00:20:39.986 --> 00:20:49.819
An agent that she sent to all her clients talking about the importance of having a platform because editors are really starting to look at that now.

00:20:49.819 --> 00:20:56.217
Especially in the kitlet world because there's, you know, all this kripal on, you know, different markets not doing as well as they used to.

00:20:56.217 --> 00:20:58.733
And so I do believe it's important.

00:20:58.733 --> 00:21:01.832
So if, you know, if you hear somebody say, yeah, now I don't look.

00:21:01.832 --> 00:21:02.991
Well, I think they look.

00:21:02.991 --> 00:21:06.949
You know, I think they wanna know what you're doing to help promote the books.

00:21:06.949 --> 00:21:10.826
What you're doing is a you know, and you don't have to have your I never post my picture.

00:21:10.826 --> 00:21:11.727
It's so rare.

00:21:11.727 --> 00:21:13.835
I'm I'm usually just posting other things.

00:21:13.835 --> 00:21:17.573
But I think it's important to have some level of a platform.

00:21:17.673 --> 00:21:19.551
So I I definitely agree with you.

00:21:19.551 --> 00:21:21.371
And that is such a great program.

00:21:21.371 --> 00:21:28.096
Now, so the thirty one day author challenge, it's broken down into thirty one days, obviously.

00:21:28.096 --> 00:21:37.071
And Every day, I offer a bite sized maybe fifteen minute thing that you can do to chip away.

00:21:37.071 --> 00:21:38.659
At that platform.

00:21:38.659 --> 00:21:48.942
If you're climbing a mountain and you have to swing your pickaxe up, to pull yourself up, to get to the next step, and then slap your pickaxe again to pull yourself off.

00:21:48.942 --> 00:21:53.560
If you have that image, you know, you don't just arrive at the top of a mountain.

00:21:53.560 --> 00:21:55.019
You have to take steps.

00:21:55.019 --> 00:21:58.837
So these are ways to say, don't don't look at the top of the mountain.

00:21:58.837 --> 00:22:01.096
Just do what you can when you can.

00:22:01.096 --> 00:22:03.733
So these are all steps that you can take.

00:22:03.733 --> 00:22:05.853
Like, I'll give you an example.

00:22:05.853 --> 00:22:08.352
One of them will be to create a poll.

00:22:08.352 --> 00:22:12.528
And that encourages you to be interactive with people.

00:22:12.528 --> 00:22:15.207
It encourages people to interact with you.

00:22:15.207 --> 00:22:27.588
But then also, if you do that hold the next day you have to report on that poll and say, gosh, I was surprised to know people don't like milk chocolate as it doesn't have to be literary at all.

00:22:27.588 --> 00:22:31.826
It should have something to do within your personality, within your world.

00:22:31.826 --> 00:22:35.384
But it doesn't have to always be in the literature.

00:22:35.384 --> 00:22:41.580
So there's things like that that people like, oh, I never thought about doing a poll.

00:22:41.580 --> 00:22:42.789
That's a good idea.

00:22:42.789 --> 00:22:44.128
Things like that.

00:22:44.128 --> 00:23:06.256
Working on your title, going back, looking at your bio, making sure that your bio is relevant, And I have told people for so many years that their photo has to be recent within the last ten years at least because one time I'd met someone at the airport that was going to the same conference as I was we were both on faculty, so they sent me his his pictures.

00:23:06.256 --> 00:23:07.765
So I could look for him in the airport.

00:23:07.765 --> 00:23:09.463
Dude.

00:23:09.463 --> 00:23:12.163
That photo was at least twenty years prior.

00:23:12.163 --> 00:23:14.342
I'm like, that that's just not fair.

00:23:14.342 --> 00:23:18.930
Like, imagine going to his book reading and you you're like, what Who was that?

00:23:18.930 --> 00:23:21.788
And why isn't the guy that I came here to speak talking?

00:23:21.788 --> 00:23:27.734
This is making me laugh because a couple years ago, I had long hair and I cut it super short.

00:23:27.734 --> 00:23:28.894
Like pixie short.

00:23:28.894 --> 00:23:34.192
So the first thing I did was go out and get new author photos, put them all over everything because I looked really different.

00:23:34.192 --> 00:23:40.688
Now my hair is growing back, And I'm like, okay, at what point do I go back and get new author photos?

00:23:40.688 --> 00:23:49.461
Because I no longer look like the old author photos but you're right when you meet somebody and the author photo is so clearly from nineteen eighty seven, jarring.

00:23:49.461 --> 00:23:51.089
You feel to see yes.

00:23:51.089 --> 00:23:51.529
Right.

00:23:51.529 --> 00:23:54.667
And sometimes you're like, okay, they just didn't bother.

00:23:54.667 --> 00:23:56.487
And, yes, we all are vain.

00:23:56.487 --> 00:23:57.846
I totally understand that.

00:23:57.846 --> 00:24:00.013
But I think that you're right.

00:24:00.013 --> 00:24:03.472
You do feel a little bit deceived about what it is you're going into.

00:24:03.692 --> 00:24:06.730
After saying that for so many years, I finally realized, oh my gosh.

00:24:06.730 --> 00:24:10.729
I I love my headshot, but That that was was that a kid to go?

00:24:10.729 --> 00:24:11.567
I'm not getting sure.

00:24:11.567 --> 00:24:17.444
I do your thirty one day challenge because this is I would I would actually like to build my platform a little bit more.

00:24:17.765 --> 00:24:21.482
So how often do you run the thirty one day challenge?

00:24:21.482 --> 00:24:26.269
Because it sounds like something most people could really benefit from?

00:24:26.269 --> 00:24:27.868
Do you set dates in advance?

00:24:27.868 --> 00:24:31.126
Just so that people can do some forward planning on it.

00:24:31.126 --> 00:24:32.585
Well, it's on my web site.

00:24:32.585 --> 00:24:33.624
Right now, it's live.

00:24:33.624 --> 00:24:34.624
Anyone can go there.

00:24:34.624 --> 00:24:37.561
It's bitsy camper dot com slash challenge.

00:24:37.561 --> 00:24:39.961
The first time I did it was in November.

00:24:39.961 --> 00:24:44.417
Then I did it again in April just publicly saying who wants to join me.

00:24:44.417 --> 00:24:48.296
And the fun part is, you can do it anytime, anywhere.

00:24:48.296 --> 00:24:53.242
The reason I picked the thirty one days is you want to commit to doing something.

00:24:53.242 --> 00:24:54.882
How many times have you said, you know what?

00:24:54.882 --> 00:24:58.279
I'm just gonna work on my my my vial a little bit.

00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:02.617
Or how many times have you said, you know, I really should consider a headshot.

00:25:02.617 --> 00:25:13.642
So this is the opportunity to book that headshot to change that bio, to create interaction with your followers.

00:25:13.642 --> 00:25:22.416
And another fun thing, is I challenge everyone every day of the thirty thirty one day challenge to follow ten people.

00:25:22.416 --> 00:25:27.134
In whatever platform you prefer, follow ten people.

00:25:27.134 --> 00:25:32.811
And I think the first time I did it, I I ended up with eight hundred new new followers.

00:25:32.811 --> 00:25:34.298
Because they follow you back.

00:25:34.298 --> 00:25:34.858
Oh my god.

00:25:34.858 --> 00:25:36.758
I can hardly wait to do this now.

00:25:36.758 --> 00:25:37.357
Awesome.

00:25:37.357 --> 00:25:41.694
You know one thing I would also, like, just kinda throw in there that I was just thinking about.

00:25:41.694 --> 00:25:46.792
Is when you do post something, then people respond and, like, make comments.

00:25:46.792 --> 00:25:49.830
Comment at least at the very minimum, like the comment.

00:25:49.830 --> 00:26:00.604
And I always respond to comments because nothing makes me more crazy than when somebody like asks question or post something and you like comment, and then they completely ignore it.

00:26:00.604 --> 00:26:04.501
And then, you know, if somebody does that a couple times with me, I just unfollow them.

00:26:04.501 --> 00:26:11.208
I just unfollowed somebody the other day because I was like, why are you even posting this if you don't wanna engage with people?

00:26:11.208 --> 00:26:16.364
And so just keep that in mind when you're posting something and people are engaging with you.

00:26:16.364 --> 00:26:19.063
That is the goal of posting something.

00:26:19.063 --> 00:26:27.057
So make sure that you are looking at it and responding and making like, thanks for saying something or just acknowledge it.

00:26:27.057 --> 00:26:31.316
Nobody wants to be ignored because if you ignore them, they will go away.

00:26:31.535 --> 00:26:33.334
I think Lisa unfollowed me.

00:26:33.334 --> 00:26:34.413
I am really bad.

00:26:34.413 --> 00:26:35.573
But I'm trying to learn.

00:26:35.573 --> 00:26:37.051
I'm trying to follow her example.

00:26:37.051 --> 00:26:42.319
She sets a very good example for engagement, and I'm trying to do better and I will do better.

00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:46.277
And once I jump into this thirty one day challenge, I'm gonna be a rock star.

00:26:46.277 --> 00:26:47.457
You guys just watch.

00:26:48.076 --> 00:26:48.516
Good.

00:26:48.516 --> 00:26:48.756
Good.

00:26:48.756 --> 00:26:49.596
I like hearing that.

00:26:49.596 --> 00:26:50.375
That's great.

00:26:50.375 --> 00:26:53.343
Because, you know, you like you like niggling the person that you're following.

00:26:53.343 --> 00:26:56.521
I mean, there's a person that I followed that I didn't even know who's an author.

00:26:56.521 --> 00:26:59.260
And and I'm like, oh my gosh, I just love this person.

00:26:59.260 --> 00:27:01.069
She's got the greatest posts.

00:27:01.069 --> 00:27:05.567
So when she mentioned she had a book coming up, I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna buy it.

00:27:05.567 --> 00:27:10.933
It's nothing I would ever really read, but because I enjoyed her interaction so much.

00:27:10.933 --> 00:27:12.673
I bought a book that I okay.

00:27:12.673 --> 00:27:15.551
I haven't read it, but, you know, I still support it.

00:27:15.551 --> 00:27:16.112
I could.

00:27:16.112 --> 00:27:16.671
I could.

00:27:16.671 --> 00:27:18.240
The the point is it's been purchased.

00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:18.680
Right.

00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:25.915
And what a great example of what you're saying that you do have this platform can be leveraged.

00:27:25.915 --> 00:27:29.213
This woman has great content you enjoyed it.

00:27:29.213 --> 00:27:34.051
She has leveraged you into a buyer, which you could not that's exactly why you're doing it.

00:27:34.051 --> 00:27:34.251
Yes.

00:27:34.251 --> 00:27:34.971
You're enjoying it.

00:27:34.971 --> 00:27:35.631
The participation.

00:27:35.631 --> 00:27:41.738
You're getting something out of the community, but She You are also now a customer, which is amazing.

00:27:41.738 --> 00:27:51.613
And if if you I don't think we need to even say anything more, that is exactly why you're showing up in these social spaces to get that sort of connection.

00:27:51.613 --> 00:27:55.651
Can you talk a little bit about the list of publishers?

00:27:55.651 --> 00:27:58.638
That I know you also offered to the writing community,

00:27:59.298 --> 00:28:07.394
the list of publishers that I shared or posted was because I was doing so much work constantly reinventing the wheel.

00:28:07.394 --> 00:28:16.078
Every time I would go back and go I think that publisher was open for non aging to writers, are they?

00:28:16.078 --> 00:28:19.057
And I'd have to go I'd have to look up their website again.

00:28:19.057 --> 00:28:21.535
I'd have to find out where their submission policy is.

00:28:21.535 --> 00:28:34.606
I'd have to take notes in a different notebook that I had the first time I found them and I just started thinking I'm gonna I'm gonna just keep a rolling list of everyone that I know that is open to not having an agent because I don't have an agent.

00:28:34.606 --> 00:28:35.595
Never have.

00:28:35.595 --> 00:28:36.894
Fun fact.

00:28:36.894 --> 00:28:41.612
And the list that I started working on was so laborious.

00:28:41.612 --> 00:28:44.769
It just took so much time that I figured I can't just keep this for me.

00:28:44.769 --> 00:28:45.608
I wanna share this.

00:28:45.608 --> 00:28:47.768
I want how would this to be for the greater good?

00:28:47.768 --> 00:28:50.027
Because I spend so much time on it.

00:28:50.027 --> 00:28:54.574
So if you go to bitsy kemper dot com, slash publishers.

00:28:54.574 --> 00:29:07.337
There's a list of over one hundred publishing houses that are open or have been open in the past to unsolicited manuscripts and to unagented work.

00:29:07.337 --> 00:29:19.181
And I do my best to keep it up to date, I have some great followers that will email me and say, these guys changed or here's a new one.

00:29:19.181 --> 00:29:22.118
Or I didn't have a good experience with that.

00:29:22.118 --> 00:29:24.837
I don't think it's a good idea to recommend them.

00:29:24.837 --> 00:29:26.796
And I say I don't recommend anybody.

00:29:26.796 --> 00:29:28.236
I just have a list.

00:29:28.444 --> 00:29:30.023
What an amazing resource?

00:29:30.023 --> 00:29:44.517
Because I there are I don't think there's anywhere else to find that sort of aggregated data about these publishing houses that take unsolicited manuscripts, and it's a very unique corner of the the book publishing universe.

00:29:44.517 --> 00:29:52.411
And if that's if listeners, if that's the direction that you're going, definitely take advantage of this list.

00:29:52.411 --> 00:30:04.784
It's gonna save you hours and hours of research and, you know, that's time that you can put into the marketing, the editing, all the other things that go into working on your book.

00:30:04.784 --> 00:30:06.863
So it's amazing that that's out there.

00:30:06.863 --> 00:30:09.342
Lisa and I used it for our picture book.

00:30:09.342 --> 00:30:10.759
For ill fated picture book.

00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:13.758
We are it's not ill fated because we haven't been rejected everywhere yet.

00:30:13.758 --> 00:30:16.557
You have at least eighty opportunities from my list.

00:30:16.557 --> 00:30:17.436
I know for sure.

00:30:17.436 --> 00:30:19.184
I think we've been rejected twice.

00:30:19.184 --> 00:30:21.523
But the rest of it is crickets.

00:30:21.523 --> 00:30:25.682
So we are we're still in the game.

00:30:25.682 --> 00:30:42.462
So well, and this is a good transition to our last question based on the ever changing landscape of the publishing industry, which is like a roller coaster ride, as you know, What advice would you give aspiring writers?

00:30:42.462 --> 00:30:43.462
No pressure.

00:30:43.961 --> 00:30:44.281
Yeah.

00:30:44.281 --> 00:30:48.339
I think my best advice would be to not give up.

00:30:48.339 --> 00:30:49.659
To keep going.

00:30:49.659 --> 00:30:53.938
If you need to take a breath and step back, take a breath and step back.

00:30:53.938 --> 00:30:57.615
But you don't lose anything by doing something you enjoy.

00:30:57.615 --> 00:30:59.273
My husband loves playing soccer.

00:30:59.273 --> 00:31:01.492
He plays soccer every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

00:31:01.492 --> 00:31:05.251
Does he think he's going to be drafted by, you know, the SAC Republic?

00:31:05.251 --> 00:31:05.911
No.

00:31:05.911 --> 00:31:07.009
They, of course, not.

00:31:07.009 --> 00:31:08.949
But he enjoys playing soccer.

00:31:08.949 --> 00:31:11.067
So we enjoy writing.

00:31:11.067 --> 00:31:11.627
Right?

00:31:11.627 --> 00:31:17.713
So you don't lose anything by writing something by writing when you enjoy it.

00:31:17.713 --> 00:31:19.153
So keep at it.

00:31:19.153 --> 00:31:24.750
Stay in touch with the people that you need to know.

00:31:24.750 --> 00:31:32.596
You don't have to keep track of people that were promoted or transferred somewhere else, but be in the no, do your homework.

00:31:32.795 --> 00:31:33.993
This is such good advice.

00:31:33.993 --> 00:31:37.232
There is a gal that I met.

00:31:37.232 --> 00:31:39.612
She was in my debut group years ago.

00:31:39.612 --> 00:31:43.167
And she, you know, super nice doll.

00:31:43.167 --> 00:31:45.606
And it just seemed like right after that.

00:31:45.606 --> 00:31:46.487
And I'm not kidding.

00:31:46.487 --> 00:31:50.163
She was publishing, like, like, book deal after book deal after book deal.

00:31:50.163 --> 00:31:54.541
I think she's done, like, twenty books in the last, you know, five years or whatever.

00:31:54.541 --> 00:31:58.578
Then I just thought, you know, God, this this one is a meeting.

00:31:58.578 --> 00:32:06.224
But what had what had actually taken place is she had just kept writing while she was getting all the rejections for her debut book.

00:32:06.224 --> 00:32:20.077
So when her debut book came out, she had a whole catalog of books that her agent just started sending out because she had continued to work even though she had received, you know, a zillion rejections getting to that first yes.

00:32:20.077 --> 00:32:36.867
So now it's like she has, like, two books coming out a year because she had just stayed in the game and done the work and knew that eventually if she if her resolve was strong enough and bigger than the rejections and the plancks, that she would eventually get her yes, and that's exactly what happened.

00:32:36.867 --> 00:32:41.465
And she's now she's one of the most well known, you know, authors out there.

00:32:41.465 --> 00:32:42.566
I see her everywhere.

00:32:42.566 --> 00:32:48.652
And so it's one of those things just keep doing the work because when that big moment happens, you're gonna be like, yeah.

00:32:48.652 --> 00:32:52.579
As a matter of fact, I do have, like, twenty books over here you can take a look at.

00:32:52.579 --> 00:32:53.240
So

00:32:53.459 --> 00:32:54.598
perfect perfect.

00:32:54.778 --> 00:32:55.479
Keep writing.

00:32:55.479 --> 00:33:03.682
And so speaking of which, let's talk about your book that you have coming out And let's talk about your book launch because I, of course, will be there.

00:33:03.682 --> 00:33:07.901
And you're gonna be at basing the book in Eldar Hills, which we love.

00:33:07.901 --> 00:33:14.517
So tell us about that when it is and tell us about your new book and give yourself some love right now.

00:33:14.576 --> 00:33:15.076
Okay.

00:33:15.076 --> 00:33:25.130
My next book is called mommy and me microm moments, five minute devotional activities for moms and kids.

00:33:25.130 --> 00:33:29.758
Which is a mouthful, which is why I always just call it mommy and me microm moments.

00:33:29.758 --> 00:33:35.474
And it's part prayer book, part activity book, part journal.

00:33:35.474 --> 00:33:39.032
Like, if all three of them got together and had a bookbaby, it's this.

00:33:39.032 --> 00:33:46.358
So the format is devotionals as a category has they all have a specific format.

00:33:46.358 --> 00:33:48.018
They're basically all the same.

00:33:48.018 --> 00:33:51.796
And mine is sort of like that, but it's different.

00:33:51.796 --> 00:33:54.763
And there are devotional journals that you write in.

00:33:54.763 --> 00:33:56.903
Mine is sort of like that, but different.

00:33:56.903 --> 00:34:01.819
Because one of the main differences is the mom is doing it with the child.

00:34:01.819 --> 00:34:09.126
You're sitting down and you're choosing to take five minutes every day to be present with your child.

00:34:09.126 --> 00:34:12.934
Even the busiest mom can afford five minutes.

00:34:12.934 --> 00:34:21.498
No matter how crazy life gets, you can catch your breath and be present with your child, on purpose for five minutes.

00:34:21.498 --> 00:34:27.693
So it's thirty five days, five weeks, and every entry is different.

00:34:27.693 --> 00:34:29.713
There might be jokes that you can tell.

00:34:29.713 --> 00:34:33.112
Games you play, like, find me something yellow.

00:34:33.112 --> 00:34:40.438
One of them is drawing things like look out the window and draw what you see.

00:34:40.438 --> 00:34:44.235
If your child is very young, you can draw it for them and and write it.

00:34:44.235 --> 00:34:52.610
And the point of that that I explain is, you know, that view is gonna be different in ten days next season.

00:34:52.610 --> 00:34:53.610
In winter.

00:34:53.610 --> 00:34:59.166
If you stay in this house for ten years, that view is going to be different.

00:34:59.166 --> 00:35:04.282
And how fun would it be to look back and say, oh my gosh, we didn't even have a tree there.

00:35:04.282 --> 00:35:18.936
Or, well, remember when there weren't any houses in the fields behind us or you know, whatever it is, but it also makes you think about how much your child can change in that short amount of time as well.

00:35:18.936 --> 00:35:25.331
And wouldn't it be great to have a keepsake of all of these moments with your child at this time?

00:35:25.331 --> 00:35:28.130
So you end up with a keepsake that's pretty cool.

00:35:28.570 --> 00:35:29.989
That sounds really beautiful.

00:35:29.989 --> 00:35:34.246
Remind us, I think you said this when you started talking about the book.

00:35:34.246 --> 00:35:35.405
When does this come out?

00:35:35.405 --> 00:35:37.034
When can people actually get it?

00:35:37.195 --> 00:35:39.494
Our launch is May twelfth.

00:35:39.494 --> 00:35:42.072
It is at Facebook for anybody who's local.

00:35:42.072 --> 00:35:44.771
It's Town Center, Eldorado Hills, California.

00:35:44.771 --> 00:35:46.650
It's from twelve to three.

00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:48.659
So, okay, we will put the info.

00:35:48.659 --> 00:36:04.070
If you are Northern California, then I will put this info about the book launch also on the podcast notes, so you can come and enjoy that event with Etsy for the launch of this book, all very exciting.

00:36:04.070 --> 00:36:10.456
So, Betsy, thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom and experience with us.

00:36:10.456 --> 00:36:18.371
This has been such I think, an insightful and useful conversation for our listeners to hear, and we are grateful that you've taken the time today.

00:36:18.809 --> 00:36:19.130
Great.

00:36:19.130 --> 00:36:19.530
Thank you.

00:36:19.530 --> 00:36:20.849
I've had so much fun with you guys.

00:36:20.849 --> 00:36:22.347
Can I hang with you all the time?

00:36:22.608 --> 00:36:23.108
Totally.

00:36:23.108 --> 00:36:26.525
Just you can actually kinda be an an extra co host with us.

00:36:26.525 --> 00:36:27.706
We're here every week.

00:36:27.706 --> 00:36:43.257
And listeners, please remember that you can find out more about Vitzy on her website, and I will put those specific links into the podcast notes and the blog with the challenge and with the publisher list that we talked about, so you can go right to those.

00:36:43.257 --> 00:36:46.324
Be sure to visit the writers trinkles dot net.

00:36:46.324 --> 00:36:49.362
That's our website to follow support and share about the show.

00:36:49.362 --> 00:36:53.860
And we will see you again next week, which is May sixth for a marketing Monday episode.

00:36:53.860 --> 00:36:59.376
Those are always a way to crack open my brain and see the noise in there.

00:36:59.376 --> 00:37:00.936
So please join us for that.

00:37:00.936 --> 00:37:06.019
And until then, happy reading writing and listening.