Ask Beth & Lisa: Surviving the Query Trenches

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Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen and I'm Lisa Schmid, and we're the co-hosts of Writers with Wrinkles.

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This is season three, episode 32.

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And today we are introducing a brand new segment called Ask Beth and Lisa.

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Yes, and I don't know if this is good or bad, because we're just going to be giving our perspective and it may not always point you in the right direction, but it's just going to be giving our perspective and it may not always point you in the right direction, but it's just going to be our take on whatever questions are being thrown our way.

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Yeah, today's a good one.

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I like starting with this one.

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It feels timely.

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Maybe it does feel timely and we just we got this one off of our our pod page, our website page, and that's what got us thinking, because everyone's style will get a question like this through our writerswithwrinklesnet, and so we thought you know what?

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Why don't we just start a little segment where we answer this question and give our take on it?

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And Beth and I have very different perspectives on how we handle things.

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She is much more calm and regulated and I'm like a spinning top, like barreling through publishing life, and it's never pretty and I usually end up on my side on the floor someplace.

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I mean, the truth is we both end up in fetal position, just we have different paths to getting there.

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I guess is probably the best way to think about it.

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If you have a question that you feel like you want us to answer, go to our website.

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There's a link right there.

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It's pretty obvious that says ask questions.

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So if you want to throw in your question into the mix of this craziness, then jump right on that.

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And we won't use your last name or even your name if you choose not to, or you know what.

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We could give a fake name because as writers, we spend a lot of time making up names.

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So maybe we give you a name that's not your name and it's a fake name.

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Maybe, I don't know, I like that Like where give you a name?

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That's not your name and it's a fake name Maybe, I don't know.

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I like that, Like where do you get your names?

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I know this is like totally off subject, but where do you find your names for characters?

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Tangent number one.

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I used to get them from my kids' friends when they were younger.

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I would just take their names.

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If I have a character that I know was born a certain year and needs to be a certain age, then I'll look at what the popular names were for that age.

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Also, yearbooks Yearbooks are a great way to get names that you just are not you know like a lot of names all at once, but like real names from real people.

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So it's kind of cool.

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I do that too.

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I look at you know my when my not really as much.

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Well, no, and the book I'm writing right now there are a couple of all these friends names.

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I always use my son's friends names, like they always get peppered in there.

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Unless they're a bad guy, then I try not to use their names, because then that would would be like Ooh, that's very nice, so, but, and then I do like for heart and souls, I wrote characters back and so I went back to like the eighties and I'm like Ooh, what was popular back then?

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Yeah, so I do the same thing.

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Those lists change pretty dramatically, like the names that were popular in.

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You know, kids born in the 1980s and kids born in the 2020s are so different.

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You know, that's true.

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Oh my God, I totally forgot what our episode's about.

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Now we come back, come back.

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It's like this is me bringing bringing Lisa back to the question of the hour.

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Well, half hour, 20 minutes, I don't know.

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Go tell, tell them our question.

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Where's the question, and it made me giggle.

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And that's when we I brought this up to you and I'm like we just need to start answering these questions.

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So the first question comes from Sandy and she writes the query trenches suck.

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How do I survive without losing my mind?

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Well, that's a good question.

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If you've got an answer, come back and let me know.

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Seriously, my gut reaction is like you don't.

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You come out a husk of a human being, stripped of all of your sense and humanity, but we're not gonna be those, we're not gonna be negative.

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We can think of some positive ways to answer this.

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I have one you go first.

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So my big thing that I always do when I am trying to sell a new project is that I start another project like immediately, even if I'm like kind of not sure what the next project is going to be.

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Sometimes this is a good opportunity to go back to something you started and abandoned for whatever reason.

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Just take your mind off of the waiting place, because you are going to be stuck in the waiting place for a long ass time.

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Long, long, long long.

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That's the only thing that we can guarantee about querying nowadays is it's gonna take a long time.

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So you know, avert your gaze, look at something else, do something different.

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Start the next project.

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Sink your teeth into that.

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Just go forward.

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Yeah, and I think, and you and I are different because I hadn't noticed.

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I'm very I.

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I'm one of those people that and I don't know how like I don't know how you do it or other people do it where they can immediately jump into another project.

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I just can't do that and because of my mind is still.

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That voice is still in my head and I don't.

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I'm not somebody who has like a million stories bouncing around my brain.

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So I guess when I'm telling you this, I'm I'm doing it to give you license or to make myself feel better and think that there are other people like this.

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There are definitely.

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There are definitely probably lots of people like that who were like I can't even stop.

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I can't stop thinking about this other thing.

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So what do you do?

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What is your go-to for this?

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I generally check out, I just check out, I check out of writing you know I am one of those.

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She doesn't call me back.

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I get no texts.

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We play like the where's Lisa game.

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Yeah it is, and it is a weird little dance we have.

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But I I think it's okay, like give yourself permission to like just take a break.

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You just finished a project.

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Writing a book is no simple task and you've had this voice inside your brain, whether it's for a year, two years, three years, 10 years, I mean who long, who knows how long that voice has been in your head.

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And for me I need to decompress from that and start kind of just I read a lot.

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I tend to, you know I'll watch some like a show, you know different shows that like give my brain a chance just to like release, like I don't have to think about solving a problem or coming up fixing a plot hole because you know, on Father Brown he's got it all nailed.

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And when I'm watching his murder mysteries, like I just I love just like immersing myself in other art.

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I guess that's the best.

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Well, it's a palate cleanser right.

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It clears out the cobwebs, it gives you some space to kind of relax and be away from the writing grind.

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Some of it too, I'm thinking, is that after you've written a handful of books, you start to know your own process pretty well, and so for me, I know that when I start any idea, I can be so excited, like, so jazz, this is the greatest idea, blah, blah, blah.

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But I'm going to flail around for about four or five weeks of just writing and deleting.

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I have no idea who these characters are, I don't know what I'm doing.

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This is terrible, and I do that on every single book.

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So I know it's coming.

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I know I'm going to do it.

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No matter when I start, I'm still going to have the flail.

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So when I have something that's out, either on submission or I'm about to start looking for a new agent for this new work that I have, so I'm about to jump into that.

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Like I know that's going to take a long time, I'm already in the flailing for the next thing because I want to get through that so that I can then start, like actually making progress on it.

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So some of it is just after you've written a few books you'll be able to recognize patterns in your own behavior, and I mean that is good because it lets you assess whether they're good or bad patterns.

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You could then tweak them a little if they're not healthy for you, but it's good to have that kind of that data on yourself.

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No, and that's good, and I think that's the thing it's like.

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Whatever your process is, it's okay for that to be your process, and if you want to sit and spin for a little bit, it's okay, but don't get stuck there.

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Allow yourself a certain amount of time and then just say, okay, enough, I've had a week of spinning and checking my emails incessantly and nothing's come through, and we hate to be the bearer of bad news, but nothing is going to come through for a while.

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I mean everyone we talk to.

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It's excruciatingly slow right now, and so I think it's one of those things.

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It's just like have your moment where you're doing, you're filled with hope and joy and you've just sent something out and you're waiting, and you know go ahead, and you know check your email every five minutes, check your email every five minutes, but then, at a certain point, just say enough is enough.

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It's time for me to pick the pieces of my life and start moving on to other things.

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And if that's decompressing and just watching shows and reading books, and you know doing whatever getting out and going, you know it's going boogie boarding or whatever it is, you need to like you just were like I'm gonna go boogie boarding, but it's making me laugh because I see you out there, you know, in your like, you know doing your hang ten kind of thing on the ocean so I think you know, at the end of the stand-up paddle that's what I was trying to think you want to go stand up paddleboarding?

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Totally different.

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Just, yeah, couldn't think of it.

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I always have a loss for words, and so it just I think it's okay, like, and that's what I do.

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It takes me a while to decompress and I'm just, I'm in the last 8,000 words of my the middle grade I'm working on now and I slogged through it, you know, because I didn't.

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I was in the editorial process and then I, you know, and then I'm like, oh, I don't want to.

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You know, I don't want to write, and so I just was burnt out, and it's okay to be burnt out, like everyone's going to have a burning and it's don't.

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And see, the thing is, I think sometimes it's up to your personality.

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Like, are you good at working through the burnout by, like sitting down and putting words on paper?

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And I'm not, because I'll just sit down and I'll stare at it and be like what I'm writing is really bad and I'm not into it, and so I just stop.

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And then I have to wait until you know how, like you're a runner, right, you know, like how some days you have like good running days, like when you go out and you're like this is going to be a good running day, like my body feels good and I don't feel like my legs weigh a hundred pounds or whatever.

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And that's how I feel about writing.

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Like sometimes I'll sit down and I'm like, okay, this is a good writing day, I'm feeling it.

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And other times I sit down and I'm like, yeah, this isn't, I'm not feeling it, so I just don't do it and that's and that's.

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But those are things that you've learned about yourself over doing the process repeatedly.

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Yeah, so it's the kind of thing that when you recognize that, it doesn't freak you out anymore because you know that it's just part of the process.

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So, again, a lot of it is figuring out.

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What is your process for dealing with this length of time where you're waiting and nothing is happening?

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And we've talked to a number of people now in the publishing industry who are saying that you can be looking at agents who are eight and nine months behind on their submissions that they're reading.

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So, for instance, I can't remember what agent this is and I wouldn't name them anyway, but I read that this agent was just getting to January and we are sitting here recording this in August.

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So say, for instance, you sent this agent a query in March.

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She's not even anywhere close to getting to your thing and you've already been sitting around waiting for X amount of months.

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So I think, just be realistic and understand the timeline.

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It's not you, it's everybody there's.

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Just there are too many manuscripts out there and the pipeline is really, really clogged and I don't know that it's going to unclog.

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I think that's just where we are.

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I published my first book in 2011.

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And I remember thinking to myself this is a very slow process.

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And now I'm like wow, that's that seemed like wicked fast compared to where we are right now.

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Even five years ago, when my first book came out, I everything I remember being just in the submission process and then, like in the queering process, things like moved pretty quick, like you would get answers fairly quickly, and now it's just like everything is, it's, it is.

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I hate saying it's such a, such a cliche, but it's crickets out there and you know, just tapping into my friends, you know we just kind of met with each other and know that we're all in the same boat.

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At a certain point we might be crying and that's OK.

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And also it's a really good time for you to catch up on episodes of Writers with Wrinkles that you just didn't have time to listen to while you were madly writing your query letter and synopsis and all of that stuff.

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So you know, see opportunity in the wait.

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What are things you can accomplish while you're waiting that are going to make you feel like you haven't just been spinning your wheels?

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I mean, I like what Lisa said about giving yourself a week to refresh your email every 10 seconds, knowing full well there's not going to be anything in it.

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But get it out of your system.

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Refresh, refresh, all good.

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We all have that fantasy that we send off a query and immediately the agent of our dreams or the publishing house of our dreams, if it's a submission comes back and says of course, I love you, please come and work with me.

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I mean that's nice, it's a nice fantasy, but it doesn't happen in real life.

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So you have to live in the real world, and the real world means you're sitting around waiting, yeah, and that's it.

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And in the meantime, deal with other things that are productive.

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If writing is like, if you are like me and just need some space to decompress, then you know, maybe take a class, listen to a podcast.

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You know, read a book on craft work on your platform and we just had an agent on that I can, we can talk about later, or you'll hear her episode talk about.

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You know the importance of having a platform that you know it just building on that it shows who you are.

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So work.

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You know, go out and do some fun things on social media that you want to have a good time with that you know you find that's not too, you know taxing.

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I like the idea of having some time to do all that busy work around writing, cause you know writing is what some percentage of the whole package.

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And then you have all the other stuff to do.

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You have your social media.

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You have your platform.

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You have agent research If you're looking for an agent.

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You have publishing house research If you're getting ready to pitch with an agent.

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Like all these things that you need to be doing or have done or be in the process of doing, and that's a good time to do it because it's important stuff.

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It's really, really necessary, but it doesn't require the same sort of creative commitment that writing an actual book does.

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So you're doing something, so it feels productive, but you're not necessarily back into the writing of an actual novel quite yet.

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Yeah, what's your admin work?

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You know, focus on your admin work, which is your own assistant.

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Yeah, exactly, I want an assistant.

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I have my cat to help me.

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She doesn't do anything, though she's a really bad assistant.

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I'm going to totally fire her.

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And you know what?

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She won't care, she won't even notice.

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Can I plug my my?

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What is it called?

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Oh, my God, your accountability.

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Yes, yes, see, I'm we're finishing each other's sentences.

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Look at that.

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Just like brain dead.

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Yeah, you know what this is so funny, so cute?

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Look E-Train.

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You know that he's a podcaster, that you know the 13-year-old phenom, yes, who's like a book guru.

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So he, when he was interviewing me the other day, he couldn't think of the words he wanted to say and he's like, oh, my brain is in braining and I just thought, oh, my God, I love you so much.

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You were like well, my brain is in braining.

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Braining is not braining.

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It's.

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I don't know what it is.

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It's like goo.

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Another time he looked at my son and he was you know all.

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He was standing there watching as we were recording the interview and he was you know, he was kind of stumbling over words, which we do, like I had to.

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I had to redo my the the pitch for my book like three times, cause I was just like rambling, like I'm a crazy person, like I've never even heard of the story before, and so he had said something and he just looked at Ollie, my son.

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He's like, and so he had said something and he just looked at Ollie, my son.

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He's like oh, why is?

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English language so hard.

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It's just like I feel that a lot too where I'm like I know there's a better word or a better way to say it, but it's just I can't, it's too hard, so full of personality, and that's another thing.

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If you're having some downtime, go go listen to one of E-Train's podcasts, because he's just, he's really delightful and huge.

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And it's fun to see young people like super jazzed about books.

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I'll put the link in the podcast notes to his stuff.

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So anyway, as Lisa reminded me because I forgot, because my brain wasn't braining I am starting some accountability groups.

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So I'm doing this book coaching certification through the Author Accelerator, which is super fun, and I will hopefully be finishing that up in the fall and then launching some different packages to help people get their writing done better.

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So this is kind of a trial and I'm calling it the Focus Forward Accountability Group because I like the idea of you know, whatever's in the past is in the past.

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Let's just move forward.

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So this is going to be a small group and it's going to be a six-week session and we're going to meet on Zoom once a week and we're going to talk about your writing goals and you're going to report back what you've done to reach those writing goals.

00:18:55.362 --> 00:19:02.463
We're focusing on micro goals, so small steps you can take to get you to where you want to go.

00:19:02.463 --> 00:19:05.625
And this is for people who might be in the middle of a manuscript.

00:19:05.625 --> 00:19:11.457
Maybe you're struggling to start a new idea or get it down on paper, or you're lost in the wilderness of revisions.

00:19:11.457 --> 00:19:16.063
Whatever it is, this is the kind of thing that keeps you on track.

00:19:16.323 --> 00:19:29.799
So the way to hear about this, like all the details, and to figure out the way to hear about this and get all the details, is to sign up for my Substack newsletter, which is bethmcmullenbookssubstackcom.

00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:44.779
I will also put that link in the notes and I'm going to send out, on September 4th, all the information you need and if it sounds like something you're into, then you're going to respond back to me and answer some of the questions that are going to be in that Substack newsletter.

00:19:44.779 --> 00:19:47.167
So think about it.

00:19:47.167 --> 00:19:48.992
Maybe it's a thing you need.

00:19:48.992 --> 00:19:50.778
It's a six week commitment.

00:19:50.778 --> 00:19:54.173
Once a week, one hour zoom.

00:19:54.173 --> 00:19:56.058
Go sign up for Substack.

00:19:56.058 --> 00:19:56.799
Does that cover it?

00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:58.651
Did I cover everything I you did?

00:19:58.651 --> 00:19:59.492
That makes sense.

00:19:59.492 --> 00:20:00.655
It did to me.

00:20:00.655 --> 00:20:06.377
I'm actually super excited about this because the good Lord knows I need accountability.

00:20:07.300 --> 00:20:12.596
Yes, I do too, Even when I don't always tell the truth to my accountability partner.

00:20:14.351 --> 00:20:15.897
I'm looking off into the distance.

00:20:15.897 --> 00:20:17.477
We are not going to talk about that right now.

00:20:17.477 --> 00:20:24.609
Okay, so this was our rant and ramble, answering questions about the query trenches.

00:20:24.609 --> 00:20:28.981
Hopefully this provided you with some insight.

00:20:28.981 --> 00:20:41.981
If nothing else, you can go away and say well, at least I'm not as like insane as those two, which is its own sort of upside right, Its own sort of win, yes, Okay.

00:20:42.830 --> 00:20:44.959
So that is it for today's episode.

00:20:44.959 --> 00:20:46.288
Ask Beth and Lisa.

00:20:46.288 --> 00:20:52.103
Remember, if you have a question you want us to discuss in this segment.

00:20:52.103 --> 00:20:56.854
We're going to be doing it once a month and if you visit our website, you'll see a big link that says submit a question.

00:20:56.854 --> 00:21:12.328
So go right there and do that Again, totally anonymous and listeners, please remember to visit writerswithwrinklesnet and find out how to support the show by subscribing, following and recommending, and join us on September 2nd for episode 33.

00:21:12.328 --> 00:21:19.824
We are talking to literary agent Anne Rose and we just recorded that episode and it is so, so, so good.

00:21:19.824 --> 00:21:22.038
There are insights galore in there.

00:21:22.038 --> 00:21:23.423
You do not want to miss it.

00:21:23.423 --> 00:21:29.694
So look for that on September 2nd and until then, happy reading, writing and listening.

00:21:29.694 --> 00:21:30.996
Goodbye, Lisa.

00:21:31.737 --> 00:21:32.498
Beth, bye, guys.