We Read Your First Pages So You Don't Have To Guess

S5E12 First Pages

Beth McMullen: Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen.

Lisa: And I'm Lisa Schmid.

Beth McMullen: And we're the co-hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season five, episode 12, and today we are doing a first page feedback episode, and you guys know how much we love those. We haven't done one in a while, so I'm excited to do this today.

Lisa: Me too. This is a good one. You know what? They're all good ones. I'm always excited to, like I said, it's like I pull it from, I have my folder and I don't read any of 'em. I just go in and grab one

Beth McMullen: I like that. I like that sort of like random selection because you never know what you're going to get. We get a lot of different stuff from a lot of different people, so it's fun to just see what pops up. Anyway, I have a funny story that I'm going.

Lisa: can hardly wait 'cause usually it's me talking about my missteps as I stumble through life.

Beth McMullen: We are gonna save your missteps for another episode. This is all fun and rainbows and unicorns and butterflies. Okay, so my oldest child has been living in London for the last three years, and this morning he texts me and he says, you're not gonna believe this, but I went outside my apartment and I heard somebody listening to your podcast on their phone.

Everybody. Lisa's gone. Gone like mute. Her face has collapsed. Yes. He said it was really strange. He heard my voice and was like, what is happening?

Lisa: No way.

Beth McMullen: that funny? I knew you would like it.

Lisa: he s did he say anything?

Beth McMullen: he said that the the marathon is happening there or was happening earlier there today. And he said it was just like a lot of people. So he was like, why am I hearing my mother's voice in this crowd of people?

Isn't that so funny? Oh my God. I want everyone to see your face. 'cause you're shocked.

Lisa: that is crazy.

Beth McMullen: sort of like the first time you see a total stranger reading your book. And I had, this has only happened to me once, I think, and it was in an airport with my very, very first book. And the reason that I noticed it is because it had a bright pick cover. You could not miss that thing. You could see it from the moon.

And I was in an airport. No memory of where I was going and I saw somebody reading it and I literally like stopped dead in my tracks and I was like, I have just unlocked a life achievement right here. It was funny.

Lisa: Oh my God.

Beth McMullen: Anyway, so we were literally just talking the other day about our international listeners and we have quite a few all over the world, and now we have some additional anecdotal evidence that people are tuning in from far and wide.

Lisa: so this is really funny. So whoever was listening to our podcast, they be listening right now. And if they are, hey, how's it

Beth McMullen: Shout out to the London listener. Yeah, I mean, I just thought that was such a riot.

Lisa: Oh my God. That's so exciting.

Beth McMullen: fun?

Lisa: my

Beth McMullen: It's a fun story. I told you nothing but rainbows and unicorns and butterflies today.

Lisa: That is fun.

Beth McMullen: and happiness. I know, I know. Anyway,

Lisa: fun, it's been a fun weekend. I am had my so it you go to my Instagram page, Lisa Radio and I have been on a unofficial book signing tour.

Beth McMullen: been on like a, you've been on like an author road trip.

Lisa: It's the strangest thing. We ended up over the last six weeks

Beth McMullen: I.

Lisa: three book signings together, and so yesterday was the conclusion of our tour and it's been so much fun hanging out with her. And she is just, you wanna raise a sunshine, you hang out with that girl like yesterday. I need to post this picture too. She has a book that I absolutely love. It's a picture book called Pi Rats

Beth McMullen: It is very funny. She talked about it when she was on the show. That was, I think, the book that was coming out. And if you are a, a picture book writer doing rhyme, that's a must listen episode because she's so, she's like doing a masterclass on how to pull that off, which seems like something, even if I spent the next 100 years solely focused on that, I still couldn't do.

Lisa: She, she is amazing. I just, I, I have to have a moment to talk about her. Like I'll, I'll talk to her in the morning. She'll be like, oh, I have this idea. And then she, like, later on in the afternoon, she sends me like a fully formed manuscript of a picture book. And it, I, I'm just like, no wonder you're popping them out.

Like Pez, like she has two more book deals coming out. And I mean, she just is always.

Beth McMullen: Oh.

Lisa: coming out this year. It's just crazy. She's always got something going on, but she embraces being like, she is that author, like she had a little pirate hat on and she's like, got these activities for kids, and I'm just sitting next to her just like me,

Beth McMullen: You are like, I don't have a hat.

Lisa: here's my bookmarks.

Beth McMullen: have anything fun. I feel like you've gotta bring that kindergarten teacher energy to being a picture book writer. And I do not have kindergarten teacher energy. I mean, I get an idea every, I don't know, once in a while in the morning, and then I'm like, I must rest now.

Lisa: Yeah, she just, she brings it and it was, it's been really fun to hang out with her at each one. 'cause she brings it to each one and I'm just more like, oh, there's, you know, go to the picture book author. She's fun.

Beth McMullen: Go to the fun one. I'm not the fun. We're gonna get you a hat. Okay. Can I tell you something? Another funny thing? Totally having nothing to do with books. We're just doing a little aside. It's hat related. I got invited, or Mike and I got invited to this Kentucky Derby party and I had to get like a crazy Kentucky Derby hat.

And I did. I found an online place and I bought one, and it's gonna make that pirate hat look like small potatoes. This thing is ridiculous. I will take a picture. It's next weekend. I will take a picture of me in the hat and I, despite what I feel like, I'm gonna be totally humiliated. I'm doing it, I'm leaning into the hat, so I'll share it with you guys.

Once it, once

Lisa: wear?

Beth McMullen: I have this great sort of 1960s vibe dress, it's like a linen shift and it's got big white and green flowers on it. It is actually really cute. I actually really love it. It's so not me. If you know me, I'd like dark green is about as colorful as I will go, so this is totally outta character.

I'm just owning it though. I'm bringing, I'm bringing my own ray of sunshine to my own, my own life with my crazy dress.

Lisa: Yeah, you are known for wearing black,

Beth McMullen: I'm lazy. It's just like it's easy and it always matches itself, right? Like I don't have to think about who does this match that does that. And if you spill stuff on it, which I do all the time, no one can see.

If I was wearing white, I would be stained with coffee 24 7.

Lisa: Yeah. That's funny.

Beth McMullen: Anyway.

Lisa: a picture

Beth McMullen: I am definitely gonna, I will share a picture on the Instagram for everybody to see and react in horror to my crazy hat. I hope it's as crazy as it looked like in the picture, 'cause it looked damn crazy in the picture.

Lisa: Oh, it'll be good. It'll be good,

Beth McMullen: All right, let's do our first pages.

Yes.

Lisa: yes.

Beth McMullen: Okay, so it's story time. 'cause now I get to read to you guys. This is a middle grade fantasy, which you know that I like that. That gets me excited having written some middle grade fantasy myself, I'm a big fan. It's called Charlotte's Hunt for Glory. I need a sip of water before I start. I should have, I wish I had like one of those voice actor voices.

I,

Lisa: you don't

Beth McMullen: I don't,

Lisa: like me.

Beth McMullen: I think we sound,

Lisa: I

Beth McMullen: I think we sound the same, so thanks for that.

Lisa: we've we have like morphed into each other. Sometimes when

Beth McMullen: Oh my God.

Lisa: I really can't tell who's talking and I have a really whiny voice and I feel like you've morphed into my whiny voice. 'cause

Beth McMullen: Great.

Lisa: remember you being as whiny

Beth McMullen: Well, here we, here we go. I'm gonna, I'm so nasally. It's my allergies. I can't breathe ever. It's terrible. Okay, back to the story. Charlotte's hunt for glory. My grandma used to call it glory, and every woman should have it. That's because it's her crown. A woman's hair is her crown of glory. Grandma would always say.

But grandma died when I was 10 years old, and that was two years ago. Now I'm 12, and I'm thinking about her as I struggle with my hair in the bathroom. It's six 30 in the morning and my sister's music blares from her bedroom on the other side of the bathroom door. It's one of those, Jack and Jill bathrooms, the kind that connects two bedrooms.

In other words, we have to share. You would think that a 17-year-old girl would take a long time when she gets ready for school in the morning, but not Sydney. 30 minutes tops. That's all it takes. This isn't surprising because after all, Sydnee is gorgeous and everyone knows that beautiful people don't need to take a lot of time getting ready in the bathroom.

Me, on the other hand, well, I'm not gorgeous, Charlotte. Hurry up. We have to be out the door in 30 minutes. Mama yells from downstairs. I sigh and spray my hair with my water bottle, moistening it so I can brush it into submission. That's a fancy word for being obedient and doing what someone tells you to do.

So I brush it into two Afro puffs on either side of my head. Yep, my usual hairstyle. This coily kinky hair sitting on top of my head isn't easy to tame, but I do the best I can. Once I get the second elastic around the last puff, I stick my tongue out at my reflection and head downstairs. My sister is already sitting at the kitchen table.

Her large loopy curls, cascading down her back. I push down the stab of envy and slide into my seat. Corn flakes and toast. I sigh and begin to shovel it in. Mama is dressed in her standard work outfit. Khaki pants, white button down shirt, gold hoop earrings, and her glossy curls smoothed back into a low bun.

All right. That's our pages for today. Charlotte's Hunt for Glory. So I have a few things. Should I start?

Lisa: Go ahead.

Beth McMullen: I love the voice. You are already getting that first person narration. It feels specific and warm and I, I feel like it's gonna ramp up to being funny. I like the, the, that's a fancy word for, it's kind of a, a fun middle grade move.

I feel like whatever revisions happen, be careful not to dilute the voice. The one thing that I think is, is fairly urgent is that this is listed as MG fantasy and there's no signal of the fantastic in these opening pages. Readers picking up a fantasy novel, expect to get that. Get that little thing that clues them in so that it's gonna be a fantasy right away.

I feel like one tiny little element, one touch is plenty. But it has, it has to be there. And I think if it, you know, this is of course literally like a page and a half of the book, so maybe it comes in the next paragraph, that's fine. But it does have to be there quickly so that we are aware that we're in a, in a fantasy story.

This is something I call the why now test. Nothing in this, in this opening, distinguishes this morning from any other. Mourning. A strong first page is gonna signal that somehow this day that we're entering in with this character is gonna change everything. It's gonna be different. And right now we're not feeling that again.

We have, we're very, very early in the story. Maybe it comes on strong in the next couple of paragraphs. If it doesn't, I would really. I would really look at that and, and make sure that there's something that's gonna distinguish this day from everything else, because again, you know, you want to have that inciting incident, some nod to what's gonna change very quickly.

I love the emotional core. We're getting a bit of that grief of the grandmother, the envy of Sydney. It's all packed into a very little space. I think that's great. The hair is identity frame is very rich and specific. I love that. So I feel like the emotional foundation of this book is sound already.

You can tell from those those opening paragraphs. So that's really well done. Just one last quick thing about the pros. I think something like brush it into submission is really good. It's like a feels original and fresh, but you also have stuff like cascading down her back and stab of envy, and those are phrases that have been used many, many times.

So they end up being diluted. I think that you wanna look at those again, and because the voice is very strong, you want to make sure you're doing it justice. You've set the bar pretty high. So look at those overused phrases and perhaps think of a more creative way to present them. And those were my comments.

What have you got?

Lisa: That's all good. I think, you know, I really like the opening paragraph because I feel like it shows me exactly who the character is, just in that opening paragraph. I thought it was so good. And I love the, the, the last paragraph, mama is dressed giving a description of their mom. I, I already have like a visual of her. Everything that, that was in between, I felt like it was a lot of telling instead of showing. and a lot of it there, it was unnecessary details and information. All stuff that could be worked in organically through the next, you know, couple chapters or, or the book. I mean, it just, it's, there's just too much. Information that I don't think is necessary right now. You know, she could find ways of, you know. Showing that her sister, who her sister is, without describing who her sister is, I mean, that's such a, a great way for her sister to come into the story and through her actions, we'll know exactly what the relationship is and exactly who she is.

And the one thing I loved so much because it showed me also who the character is, is I stick my tongue out at my reflection. I love that. You know, I already know, like she's spunky and she has a sense of herself and, so I thought that was really good, but I love the opening. I thought it was it, it lent a lot to the voice, like I could see who the character is.

Beth McMullen: I think you can also bring some dialogue to bear on. Understanding who the sister is. One exchange between the two of them can show you so much about the nature of their relationship, that you get away from some of that, that telling, I feel like we've said this repeatedly over and over a million times, but in the opening pages, you need to be so critical of.

What every word and every sentence, and every, every paragraph is doing, like what work is it doing? Is it doing enough work to stay? And if it's not, then you should try to replace it with something that's a lot more active. You don't wanna get lost in descriptive details and also have. Have faith that your reader will understand enough to come with you.

I think a lot of times we feel like we have to give the reader everything or they're not gonna understand what we're trying to say, but you do need to have faith that they will get it with. Well chosen descriptions and and paragraphs that are doing heavy lifting, giving us some of the fantasy, giving us some action, giving us some sense of what's gonna be different, what's to come, all of those little things.

You can work into those opening paragraphs, and hopefully that is enough to grab your middle grade reader.

Lisa: Yeah, less is more. That's like the key. key to everything. You know, and going through, and I know it's so hard, especially in those first pages, you're figuring out the story, you're figuring out the characters, you're figuring out backstory, you're figuring out relationships, and you're spilling it onto the page. And you know, please know that I do this all the time. And Catherine, my critique partner, immersed, just is brutal and is like, cut your first chapter. story starts in the second chapter and it's always me working all like, this could be me writing

Beth McMullen: Well, it's,

Lisa: the stuff we do.

Beth McMullen: it's the idea that you are starting in the wrong place and you're starting in the wrong places because you're trying to get your feet under you. You're trying to get comfortable. With this character, with this story, and that's why, I mean, I think it's totally fine to leave all of this until you come back for a, a second pass of your, your first big revision, but at that point, you need to recognize that the opening is not strong enough because you are still doing a, you're doing a warmup and y.

You should probably start after the warmup because the readers don't need to see you warm up. They just need to be right into it. So a lot of times that gets taken care of in the, in your first big revision after you've kind of gotten the whole thing down on paper, which is great. It's a perfectly fine time to do it.

It's just to keep it in the back of your head that, okay, I am starting here, but I know I'm not really starting here. Eventually I'm gonna change where this starts, because right now I'm just trying to get this on the page so that I have a sense of where I'm going next.

Lisa: Oh yeah, you'll, you'll, in revisions, a lot of this will probably go and I'm, if, if any, you know, if you're anything like me which you're not I'm like really, like if I've written something, writing for me is not easy. And so like if I've written a whole chapter. I, I'm gonna find a place for it. Like I'll tweak it and I'll move it around.

And I remember in my last book, I cut the first chapter 'cause it was kind of all backstory and just, you know, the story needed to jump in with more something interesting. And I moved it to chapter eight. And then made some changes and it worked perfectly, but I wasn't gonna let that first chapter go. I'm like, this is good.

This is like, I don't want this to go anywhere. So I just cut it, saved it, moved it, and then I was like, oh look, I have a whole chapter that I've written. I can take the day off.

Beth McMullen: I think too, like you, you shouldn't just delete it, cut it out, and put it somewhere else, right? Save it for later. The chances of you coming back to it and using it are usually pretty slim. You're kind of unusual in that regard. A lot of times it just doesn't belong, and no matter how you try to fit it in, it's never gonna fit in.

I had a chapter in my very first published novel. That my editor was like, no, this does nothing. But I was like, but I love it. I love it. So I cut it out and I saved it and I put it into book two and she was like I've seen this before. It still does nothing. And I was like, dammit, dammit. I wanted it to go in.

I know. I tried.

Lisa: funny.

Beth McMullen: saw the light of day, and it was a great chapter, but it did, nothing did. It's not a, I think to cut those chapters. It's not a commentary on your, on your ability to write that chapter. It's just like, it doesn't, it doesn't move the story forward. It doesn't tell you anything about the character.

It doesn't give you crucial pot plot points. It just doesn't add enough to to stay. It's sad.

Lisa: ever just delete stuff. Like if there's like a whole page or a paragraph that I think is like clever or I'm, I'll save it. Like I usually save everything that I'm like cutting like big chunks. I'll save it to the end of the document. And then sometimes they'll be like, oh, I can use that over here.

Or I can, you know, 'cause I'm just like, I, I, I don't wanna let it go.

Beth McMullen: I don't wanna write it again.

Lisa: is hard. Like

Beth McMullen: See, okay. I've been doing this long enough that now I just delete it. Mm. Goodbye. I, I know.

Lisa: I.

Beth McMullen: After years of trial and error, those words are never gonna see the light of day. That's not to say that every once in a while, I haven't had a regret where I'm like, I feel like I wrote this before.

Why am I having to do it again?

Lisa: It's, I don't know why I was thinking about this the other night, but there was, there was a, I was trying to think of a description for a character that I just ended up cutting, but I, I kid you not, I spent like a whole afternoon trying to come up with the perfect line, like for this character. I, I don't know what was going on in my brain.

And I finally came up with like the description of him and I'm like, oh my God, that's perfect. And then I ended up cutting the character and I still think fondly about that line.

Beth McMullen: It is a bummer. I mean, cutting a whole character.

Lisa: good.

Beth McMullen: Well, it felt good in the moment, and that was enough. It gave you a, it gave you a little endorphin rush, right? Like you're like, I feel good at, I'm good at this. I'm good at this. Look, I wrote this line. Yes, you are. You've published books. Ergo, you're good at this.

Anyway, my little friends. That wraps up our first pages. I hope that was helpful to all of you out there writing first Pages and also the author. We will send these comments directly to the author so they will have them for future reference if they want. And I think that wraps it up. Do we have anything else of importance to say?

I don't think so.

Lisa: No, I, I'll just be thinking about the writers with wrinkles in London, dah, dah, dah.

Beth McMullen: Isn't that cool? Didn't that make you happy? I felt like that was cool.

Lisa: did Max feel really proud that you're,

Beth McMullen: think he was like a little stunned, like, what is happening?

Lisa: yeah.

Beth McMullen: I thought that was so funny. I mean, what are the chances that he walked out the door at that exact moment? Pretty slim. Pretty slim. I take it as the universe telling us that, you know, we're doing a good job. We should just keep, keep it up, right?

Lisa: Yay.

Beth McMullen: Yay for us. Alright, so we are back next time. I think our next episode is an ask Beth and Lisa, so please send us thoughts, feelings, prayers, whatever. And that will be in. Two weeks. That's our regular schedule. And until that time, our lovely listeners happy reading, writing, and listening. Bye, Lisa.

Lisa: Bye, Beth. Bye guys.

Beth McMullen: I.