Rolling With It (And Then Not)

Beth McMullen: Friends. I'm Beth McMullen

Lisa Schmid: and I'm Lisa Schmid.

Beth McMullen: and we're the co-hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season five, episode 11, and this is an episode of, oh. The tragic life of writers. No, I'm only kidding. Although that's true. This is an episode, it's a cautionary tale. Less of an episode, more of a cautionary tale about sure you follow up with details for festivals, conferences, author events, et cetera.

And I'm going to turn the microphone over to Lisa 'cause she has the cautionary tale.

Lisa Schmid: First of all, I have to preface this with, this book festival. It was the Sacramento Book Festival. And kudos to the organizers because they did an amazing job. Like I've never been to a book festival before and I really didn't know what to expect. I was serving on a middle grade panel and I was supposed to do a, a panel and then assigning immediately after.

But a friend of mine had texted me who was there already, and just said, this place is off the hook. You're not gonna get parking in the parking lot, you're gonna have to park like blocks away in the residential area. And so I was, I should back up a little to the very beginning of our sad tale.

Beth McMullen: Part of the tale is now forthcoming.

Lisa Schmid: Oh my gosh. So months ago I was approached and I was so giddy because I've never been invited to a book festival. I've done panels and I've done like a LA, but this was my first invitation. And so I was serving on the panel with Lisa Radio. It was a middle grade panel. Lisa Reay who was on our panel that you and I were on, that we've had a previous cautionary tale.

Beth McMullen: Are just, this is not actually, this is not good to be. To be up the cautionary tales because at some point we might have to look at ourselves and say, is it us? Is it, yeah, but that's for another day.

Lisa Schmid: It was so funny because all I, when I was talking to Lisa Radios, this all was going down. I'm like, oh my gosh. I don't even wanna see Lisa re Renee's face when she hears about all this. So she handled it way better than I thought, I will tell you, she handled it better than I did. I did not handle it well.

So anyway. So months ago there, they send out the person who is going to be selling our books sent out an email asking, what titles do you have? Blah, blah, blah. So I told her my two titles. One of 'em I knew she wouldn't be able to get that was Ollie Oxley. It's not in Ingram anymore.

And but fortunately because I sell my own copies through our tap room, I always have stock of both of my books, which is not usual, like most authors don't have their own stock. So anyway, but I'm like, I can get all the oxley. You just get heart and souls and we're good to go. So flash forward to a week before the conference, the director of the conference calls me and she's no books have been ordered.

So I'm just like, how does this happen? Why does this happen? Anyway, so she's scrambling, as any director of a conference would. She's scrambling can you get him? Can you do this? You can do that, blah, blah, blah. So I'm calling Lisa and leaving a message for Lisa Reme, and I'm just like.

You guys just, do you guys have books? I don't know if they're gonna get to you. This is what's going on. And fortunately Lisa had some author copies, Lisa Renee and Lisa Radio had copies. So I'm like, okay, we're all good. And then there's a fourth person who I don't know, and I'm assuming she's getting everything handled.

So anyway, so then I get a call that. She has been able to get, she placed an order and got one copy of Heart and Souls, and I'm just like, you know what? Whatever I've got copies, I'm bringing them which I don't wanna do. I don't wanna like just, I just wanna show up.

Beth McMullen: And the thing to also remember is yes, you're getting exposure and that's good and that's half of it. But another half is that you're at these festivals, able to move a lot of copies. 'cause there's all this foot traffic. You have thousands and thousands of people meandering through the venue, seeing the books, buying the books.

They're already like prime to purchase. So the fact that you have this moment that you can't take advantage of because somebody down the pipeline screwed up the orders is maddening and it feels like complete disrespect for your time. Like I have given you this day of my life and we had an agreement.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah, and the agreement was to do the pan. At three and then the signing at 3 45. So again, I'm excited. I'm like, you know what? I'm putting that part behind me. I can roll with the punches. I'm just like, whatever. So my friend Liza, fast forward texts me and she's you're gonna have to park blocks and blocks away from this thing because it's crazy busy.

So I'm, I get out a little wheelie suitcase. This is so sad, and I pack all my books into this little wheely suitcase and I bring 20 copies and so I put it in the back, da. And she was right. I had to park like six, seven blocks away in this residential neighborhood. Oh, and PS I almost forgot to look at where I was at before I left and I had to roll back and look at the street names.

'cause I knew I'd never find my way. So anyway, so I'm rolling my little, suitcase down the sidewalk all the way to this, the center and there's thousands of people. I'm like, oh my God, this place is off the hook. So I get in there and I'm trying to find like, where's the booth that's gonna be holding, it's a bookstore that's gonna be selling my books.

Like where is this? And so I can't find them and I'm looking around 'cause it's a huge place. So I finally find the middle grade room. And I find my friends Lisa and. Joanna and they're sitting at the back of, it's a picture book panel, and that's important because of what follows next.

'cause my friend just called me and she reminded me. Nobody heard what I said, but it was just like the context of it. So I sit down, I've still got my little wheelie case and I'm like, Hey, you know what's going on? And my friend just looks at me and she's I go, where's this? Where are we supposed to take our books?

'cause blah, blah, blah. And she's yeah, FYI, there is no signing today. And I'm just like, what? And she's yeah, the lady wants to leave at two 30 because she, doesn't think it's gonna be busy. And bad words dropped outta my mouth.

Beth McMullen: It's a pile on, right? Like days when as a. Professional writer, you're just served up humiliation after

Lisa Schmid: Totally.

Beth McMullen: and it starts to feel like too much. It's okay, I can roll with the one thing. I can't roll with six things.

Lisa Schmid: So she's just she just doesn't wanna stay. And so I just watch my suitcase. Where's this place? I'm ready to just be like, you can't just leave. Like I, when I've been promoting it, it's been promoted. Everybody in on the panel's, been promoting the signing and book selling afterwards.

This isn't just there's like kids, they're children, like they're all, everyone's excited anyway.

Beth McMullen: like you made an agreement. We

This

Agreed on this and they expect this bookseller to remain there through at

Lisa Schmid: right,

Beth McMullen: the signing. You

After that.

Lisa Schmid: That's, it's not that hard. It's like another hour of your time. And so my friend Lisa is I've, we've already, like I, the organized, there's, know about the situation, whatever, blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, just watch my stuff. So I'm like marching over through the conference and I find this woman and she.

Just like she's I can't even remember if she was like, still like putting up her books. I can't remember. It's all like a fog at this point, and I'm ready to like unload on her and unload, me unload just like in a nice way. 

Beth McMullen: Of loading, unloading. Excuse me. I have a small unimportant. that probably I shouldn't bother you with.

Lisa Schmid: no sir.

Beth McMullen: go in there and throw down,

Lisa Schmid: Oh, so tragic. So then she's just, she looks at me and before and I'm like, my name's Lisa Schmid. I'm Lisa Schmid. I'm one of the authors. And before any more words come out, she unloads on me, like on, on me.

Beth McMullen: and this is the twist in the tail.

Lisa Schmid: This is a total plot twist. She just is I don't need this drama. And she's going off on me, and I'm outta here because it's, I just don't need it. And I'm just thinking what drama, like you didn't order any books, like we're all bringing our books for you to sell and make money. There's the, it's like a moneymaking machine right here. What what is the problem? So anyway, I she's going off and I'm just like, ah, I can't deal with this. So then she said, just bring your books back and I'll sell some before, your signing even happens. And I'm just like, all so I go marching back to find Lisa and I'm like, she's, she, because Lisa's book's already out, so I get my little wheelie case.

And I'm wheeling it.

Beth McMullen: Paddington bear with your

Suitcase wandering around the book festival

Lisa Schmid: Excuse me. Coming through like it's packed and I'm the only person wandering through this place with my little wheelie case. Oh my God. It's so tragic. So I get there and I open it up like I'm hawking, like I'm a salesperson, hawking my wares. And she,

Beth McMullen: are right, 

Lisa Schmid: so she is she's I can do that one, I can do that one.

I don't know if I can sell that one. And she's I'll take four of these and three of these or whatever. And I'm like, okay. So I still have a bunch of books and I'm just like, I close up my little suitcase and she puts 'em out. Anyway. And now I'm like, I have to find a place to leave my suitcase because I'm not gonna leave it here 'cause she's leaving in the middle of my panel.

And so I could see it just being left in the corner and somebody just, walking up and going, look, here's a suitcase full of books. Yeah. So anyway, so now I'm like back wandering through the center, the convention center with my little suitcase. Do. God, this is so just sad. So then I'm like, I go see e train he's there.

So I'm talking to him at his little booth and I'm trying to figure out like, how long are you gonna be here today? Can I store my suitcase? Can you,

Beth McMullen: my suitcase? Can you watch my bag?

Lisa Schmid: that's exactly what I was asking. And he is just yeah, I'm outta here, too, or whatever. And I'm like that seems to be the mass exodus because.

And he's so sweet, and he's like trying to like, I don't know, maybe you can do here, whatever. He's just the sweetest person. So anyway, while I'm talking to him, one of the co-directors comes up and I'm like, Hey, do you know where I can put my suitcase? Because I just I don't wanna drag it around. So he's let's go over to avid books.

Who PS is the hero in this story? And they're Davis, they're your local Indie. So I take it over there and I'm like, Hey, can I just leave my books here? Like just the suitcase? And she's what kind of books do you have? And so she's I'll just take 'em, I'll put 'em out. And I'm like, oh my God, thank you.

So she puts my books out, there's probably, I don't know how many, the remainder of the books. And so she lets me leave my suitcase there. Then I go back to, my suitcase is now taken care of, and I go back to the panel. This is all a lot.

Beth McMullen: just, I don't understand honestly, if you. If everybody is under the impression that this thing is winding down at two 30, why are you scheduling a panel for three, first of all, right? And why are you scheduling a book signing for 3 45 or four, whatever it was when everybody's Like, why would you not front load your scheduling with the idea that everybody's gonna be heading out?

And maybe it's because they didn't realize that or. They expected people to stay longer, but I don't

Lisa Schmid: I don't think that.

Beth McMullen: really worked correctly.

Lisa Schmid: No, I don't think that was the case. I think with like with E train, he was leaving because he had somebody place else to go and there were still people manning his booth, but she just didn't wanna be there. And it was still, the place was still rocking at three o'clock.

Like it was still it was busy when I left at four. Four 15, it was still, it hadn't diminished in any sense of the word, like it was still booming in there.

Beth McMullen: Yeah.

Lisa Schmid: I think, I don't even know where, I think she just got it in her head like, I don't wanna work past this time. I don't know what, I can't speak for her.

Beth McMullen: understandable. But at the same time, then you should probably not raise your hand to participate in this because it's like, it's not just you. It's all these people who are relying on you to be where you're supposed to be at a certain time. So if you're like in a bubble. And nobody gets affected, then fine, do whatever you want.

But like, when you agree to do these sorts of festivals, you have to do what they're asking of you. And I wish this was like a cautionary tale that we'd only heard once, but it's happened to most people with some at some point where the pipeline just, you know, just something breaks down the communication and. You are standing there looking like an idiot and that doesn't feel good, never feels good.

Lisa Schmid: I think one of the things, so when we were doing the panel which was, those are always fun and, at the end, the moderator was like, okay, and there's a signing afterwards over, in the other room. I'm like no, there's not, there's no signing. Trying to,

Beth McMullen: hold that thought.

Lisa Schmid: yeah,

Beth McMullen: because,

Lisa Schmid: signing.

And

Beth McMullen: thing has evaporated before our very eyes.

Lisa Schmid: yeah, because no, there's no books. Like I didn't, she was already, I already knew that she was packing up. So anyway, so I think there was some confusion on that and we, Lisa and I, the Lisas, the three Lisas. Wandered off to go see if, if any of our books, if she was like done packing, what the deal was.

So we get there and she's pretty much, for the most part, packed up. And there's one girl like clutching one of my books and all teary eyed and she had come there. After the panel wanted to come by the book and the person had already been packing up and she was crying because she wasn't gonna be able to get my book and

Beth McMullen: on top of. Your trauma. Now you have a traumatized child and that's always

Lisa Schmid: oh my God.

Beth McMullen: that.

Lisa Schmid: So now you know me, I'm just like, oh my God. And so she, the woman like sold the book to her and so she's clutching it and I'm so grateful she got it and she was just the sweetest little thing. And, but I'm just thinking, look at what's, look at the, like the domino effect of the, her decision on not just, the aggravation she caused these poor people who spend probably a year.

Organizing this event and putting their heart and soul into it, and with just complete disregard, she decides arbitrarily, I don't feel like being in here anymore. And so I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna let children down. I'm gonna let writers down, I'm gonna let the organizers down, and somehow she's trying to make herself out to be.

I don't know what she was trying. I don't know. I just found the whole thing really just upsetting. It was like yesterday Lisa and I were just, it's a lot and it just sucks that we get put in this position that we are so excited and so honored to be asked and then some one person can make these decisions that have such a snowball effect on so many people.

Beth McMullen: Yeah, it's true. And unfortunately I think that there's this weird. There's this weird thing in publishing in that some parts of it are very professional and other parts are really amateur, right? So you get this, you're trying to act professionally, and it not everybody who is involved is trying to reach that same standard.

What I think is like when I. Mess something up. Like when I screw up something, my first instinct is to try to fix it, right? Okay, I am taking ownership that I have screwed this up. What do I have to do to try to make it better for the person that has somehow been damaged by my screw up? And I feel like I can think of a handful of times over the length of my publishing life that. The screw ups had nothing to do with me, but I bore the brunt of it, and there was never any attempt to right the wrong. you are just and again, it comes back to that sense of I'm just standing here looking like an idiot for reasons that have nothing to do with me. And hate that.

I hate that for myself and I hate that for all writers. 'cause like trying to do the right thing. It's an insanely difficult world to operate in and to feel like there are forces working against you that. You don't even understand why. It's just maddening. It's maddening.

Lisa Schmid: It's, the other thing is it's like we go over and there's a signing table with our little names in front of us, for us to sit behind and sign books, and of course there's no books and there's nothing happening, and I am just. And she just is it doesn't matter. You know what I mean?

And I just, it was a sad way to end the day. Oh no, it does get a little bit sadder, 

Beth McMullen: wait, there's more.

Lisa Schmid: more. So then I go back to, we're leaving and the wonderful people at Avid Reader, she had sold a couple books, so I had to open up my little suitcase again and pack all my little books back up.

And she was so gracious and kind, and I just love her to pieces. This is the, I don't, the book I, you, I think you might know her name. She was wonderful. Like I love her so much. So she was like, so kind about it. So anyway, I'm packing up my little suitcase back with my books that didn't sell and then had to roll 'em back throughout, the center and then back out through the parking lot.

And if it was a movie, it would've faded to black with me, like pulling my little suitcase case across the parking lot and into the sunset.

Beth McMullen: Oh, it's brutal. It's brutal. And I think that I don't know, I think it's human nature that we remember the experiences that are more. embarrassing or humiliating or negative. They stick, they're stickier in a lot of ways than the stuff that goes perfectly because I've had a handful of events over the course of my writing life that have gone poorly.

I've had. Many more that have gone perfectly right, but it's those bad experiences that are stickier and make you gun shy. And my instinct right now at this point in my writing life is to say no to every invitation because I feel like I'm putting myself out and the person is not meeting me halfway, whoever is on the other side is not meeting me halfway. Honestly, it's just like I didn't want to deal with the potential standing there feeling like a jerk again. I don't wanna do it. And so I pretty much stopped doing it, and that hurts me. Absolutely, because, exposure is super important in this business. But at the same time I felt like I just didn't wanna go through another. Experience of being like, what am I doing here? I gave this event, this whatever, my whole day, and I've got nothing to show for it.

Lisa Schmid: I think for me it was really about, you just feel like you're letting kids down because you've made a promise. You've, parents have looked at the schedule and said, okay, we can go to this middle grade. We can, we can go to this picture book. They work around these schedules and for those not to come together and be disappointed especially when we're like.

It, this is like a big deal for us too. This is huge. You know how excited I was and I was still, I'm still glad I went and I'm still glad I was there. But it just is this one person really had a ripple effect apart across the whole. Thing for us. And Lisa Renee came from, two hour drive away.

I was half an hour. But and it's so funny because our last panel, the exact same thing happened with us. They didn't order the books. And they're the ones that invited us. It's just 

Beth McMullen: yeah, I mean that, crazy too. Like you, you get invited by store or an event and that's it. They just don't do the rest of the work. And when you show up, they act all surprised at like why are. Why are you upset that I don't have any of your stock here, or I haven't advertised it, or I haven't done a single thing to, to make sure that people know that you're here support the effort. And again, it's that sense of I've given you all this time and why.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah.

Beth McMullen: I honestly, I feel like part of it is the sort of lesson from the cautionary tale is that you really have to check your resources. If you agree to do, say a bookstore calls you up and says, we'd love to have you come and do something.

Look at their past events, see if you can find anybody to talk to who did an event with them. sure that it went well. Go to an event there yourself before you commit festivals too, like who's ordering the books? When can I check to make sure that they're ordered? Where am I gonna, how do I fit into this whole process?

Like have no problem with taking ownership for following up and making sure that stuff is happening, but you don't know what you don't know. I think you really so many things in this business. You've gotta do your homework before you commit, or you're gonna experience some potential disappointment, or you're gonna feel like you're wasted time or you're gonna have crying kids. We do

Lisa Schmid: Yeah.

Beth McMullen: kids.

Lisa Schmid: Never. And it's, so that's all such great advice. Like we're also I don't wanna say desperate, we're also, okay, I'll say it.

Beth McMullen: Just say it.

Lisa Schmid: We all are looking for ways to move our books, to get our stories in the hands of readers. And this, again, this festival is amazing. Like I just was stunned that there's thousands of people.

Beth McMullen: right? That

Lisa Schmid: Yeah,

Beth McMullen: this effort is a great effort and it's a successful effort and you just wanna be part of it. And

Lisa Schmid: right.

Beth McMullen: You are being prevented from, no cause of your own, no, no action that you took. it's just it compounds that sense of disappointment.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah, we li Lisa, that's me, just wheeling. And it was my son's, it was my son's little blue suitcase and it has all these little racing stickers and I'm just like coming through oh my God. But.

Beth McMullen: Go ahead.

Lisa Schmid: On the flip side I have, I'm doing a signing for independent bookstore day, this coming weekend, and it's gonna be at Old Haunts Bookshop or Old Haunts Bookstore in Granite Bay.

And the owner is amazing. He, invited me, he ordered my books, got a bunch of books on, and he's they're gonna be here. He's done all this promotional stuff. I've seen all the books that he has stock, like in all his little videos, and, that's the kind, that's the epitome of a great.

Event whether people show up or not. I've already been made to feel like I matter, you know this, I matter to this bookstore owner. And he is shown me and all the other authors that we are important and he is doing all the legwork ahead of time. He has our books in stock. I can see them visually 'cause he is promoting the heck out of the event and I can hardly wait to go and support him.

He is, so that's this weekend and I'm with Lisa Radio again, like we're together all the time.

Beth McMullen: for more success.

Lisa Schmid: Oh my God. It will be a good story no matter what because he's such a sweet guy and I just, I'm rooting for that bookstore to make it 'cause he deserves success and he's an author. And that's, oh my God.

That's what is the difference. He is an author,

Beth McMullen: might

Lisa Schmid: He gets it.

Beth McMullen: it. Yeah.

Lisa Schmid: it. We love him. Yeah.

Beth McMullen: I think, there's this sense that you're willing to do anything to promote your books. I do think you need to be of your time because if you have a few lost days like this, it adds up.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah.

Beth McMullen: It just gets frustrating.

So just do your homework, like all these things. Do your homework, make sure it's gonna be a good investment of your time, and then stay on top of the organization or whoever it is that is driving the the event or whatever forward so that you are not surprised when you arrive and find that no books, there's no signing, there's no this, there's no that.

You don't wanna be caught out like that. 'cause that's just maddening.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah, that was crazy. And the whole time it was going on, I was like, I can hardly wait to talk about this on the podcast because this is some crazy stuff.

Beth McMullen: are here to give you a snapshot of what a working writer's life is really like.

Lisa Schmid: Oh my gosh. It's crazy. But it was also fun 'cause I got to see a lot of fun people. I got to see the boys at Bloodstone books and they're always fun. Like I said, E Train and a bunch of other authors that I know. So that's, and no matter what at the end of the day, it's always fun.

But again I'm pretty sure Lisa and Joanna are still scarred from my comments.

Beth McMullen: Yeah, I think it can definitely get under your skin, especially if it is something that has happened more than once. So

Lisa Schmid: it's crazy.

Beth McMullen: That's definitely. definitely, we feel your pain

Lisa Schmid: But at the end, but also I, it's no matter what, I still in my own way had a good time 'cause I was still around book people. I still got to hang with my friends. I got to go out to lunch to a really good lunch that I loved.

Beth McMullen: the back of your head you're like, this is gonna make a fun story that

Lisa Schmid: I totally.

Beth McMullen: So that's the the other side of it is that we go through life finding things that we can talk about on the podcast, and some of them are like a little crazy.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah. The life of a writer. I should just take a picture with my suitcase. Now

Beth McMullen: You should definitely post your suitcase on the

Lisa Schmid: people are like,

Beth McMullen: or

Lisa Schmid: is that?

Beth McMullen: is the suitcase. This

Lisa Schmid: I have to wonder if people are like, why is this woman like continually walking around?

Beth McMullen: thought you had just gotten off a plane,

Lisa Schmid: The convention.

Beth McMullen: very far afield all the way to the book festival, so they probably thought you were just, you were a traveler.

Lisa Schmid: I know, excuse me. Excuse me. Coming through. Excuse me.

Beth McMullen: Oh my gosh. That's crazy. That is crazy. I hope I hope our listeners enjoyed the cautionary tale and we'll just proceed with a tiny bit of caution when they say yes to things. I think that's the overall message, right?

Lisa Schmid: Lots of asking questions because you can't always count on, like you had. We had a director of this event that was on it. She was on top of it because she was calling me like the Sunday before. Like this is, she was sitting down and calling every single kid lit writer on her list that was going to be affected.

And and following up and doing all the work, like I think about everything that she had to do, and then it still, had some missteps once she put out that fire. You know what I mean? Because when you're doing an event like that's all you're doing is putting out fires once you put everything into place.

Beth McMullen: And it's such an enormous job to organize one of these things, like

Lisa Schmid: Oh my God.

Beth McMullen: of moving parts, so you know, it's a given that something is gonna go sideways, that's inevitable. It's just if you can prevent that moment from happening to you by just asking more questions and making sure things are proceeding the way you think they're supposed to be, then you say. everybody a lot of grief.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah, don't assume because it just, you can't assume that things are, that they've got your books. They can't, you just, you can't assume like just,

Beth McMullen: No, that's actually, that's really it. Just don't assume anything is going to plan, check, double check, triple check, et cetera.

Lisa Schmid: yeah.

Beth McMullen: have Kolby Sharp coming up next week. So that will be a fun episode. I hope everybody tunes in for that. He's like a super interesting person.

Lisa Schmid: He's,

Beth McMullen: he's a serious book nerd, right?

He's like a book person.

Lisa Schmid: I booked him because I, we had so many like serious conversations, like this one kind of downer conversations and I'm like, we need

Beth McMullen: This

Lisa Schmid: no

Beth McMullen: saving

Lisa Schmid: telling. I.

Beth McMullen: future.

Lisa Schmid: But this is, I was like, we need a palate cleanse of somebody who is just like light and fun and can talk about books and what's happening and so that's why I booked him because he's just such a breath of fresh air on the internet, he's 

Beth McMullen: he

Lisa Schmid: is

Beth McMullen: gonna be bringing the joy to

Lisa Schmid: gonna be bringing the joy.

Beth McMullen: next week.

Lisa Schmid: Yes.

Beth McMullen: definitely look for that. remember, as always, you can find out more about the podcast, upcoming guests, all of that good stuff at the writers with wrinkles.net website. And. Any closing remarks? Any last words before we shut this baby down?

Lisa Schmid: No last words

Beth McMullen: Lisa said everything she

Lisa Schmid: I have. Yeah, everything has been said.

Beth McMullen: on us. Okay, listeners. So until we are back next week, happy reading, writing, and listening.